Evidence of meeting #104 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was agreement.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Executive Director, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance
I would need to follow up with you on that.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
Thank you.
We had, in the last session, Invest in Canada present to us, which is the new entity on foreign direct investment.
I'm wondering if you see anywhere within the agricultural sector an opportunity or a challenge with foreign direct investment from, let's say, a Brazilian corporation into the Canadian agri-food market.
Executive Director, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance
Not at this point, no.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
In terms of the practices that we offer here in Canada, would it be fair to say that we are less labour intensive in Canada on the agri-food side than in Mercosur countries?
Executive Director, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance
For that I would need to refer to my members who are handling that sort of thing. We focus really on the trade policy side.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
Do you see any opportunities that would come together for a free trade agreement between Canada and Mercosur?
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
It's really interesting on the science side. I guess maybe it's an idyllic perspective. I think the value of negotiations or early conversations is also to make a difference globally in the investment in science and the perspective in the area of agri-food and its practices and polices. Also, looking at the opportunities for women in Mercosur countries, we have to say that, if we raise the economic security of women, we raise the economic security of all. I see there is an opportunity. I understand your priority in terms of where it is on the list.
Executive Director, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance
I agree on the science side that in free trade agreements there needs to be a commitment to science-based decision-making and rules that are predictable and transparent to allow our farmers and producers to make decisions on the long term and to ensure that there's predictability and decisions based, again, on science, in free trade agreements but very much at the international level as well. It can be one way of dealing with it, but working with international organizations and at the WTO are also other avenues to do so.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
Certainly working with the WTO would make it much more cumbersome and stretch it out. I'm just wondering if there's an opportunity for some harmonization or some—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking
I'm sorry, you're not going to be able to get a question in there. Your time is up.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking
I have a quick question. Mr. Hoback used to be here, and many times in his previous business he sold equipment, and when Russia opened up, he found that the biggest advantage for the Canadian agriculture industry was equipment to Russia at that time.
Is there any big potential for us, because when you go out west, we have the most highly technical equipment in the world and we develop it. Are there any opportunities for us to be selling our high-tech equipment, our agriculture equipment, or even seeds? Besides selling as an export product, is there other stuff that we have a potential to sell down there?
Executive Director, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance
There could be. The agricultural equipment manufacturers would be best to answer that.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking
Okay, maybe we'll bring them in.
We're going to move on to the NDP. We have Ms. Ramsey for five minutes. Go ahead.
NDP
Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON
Thank you.
Thank you to our witnesses today. We're four witnesses in on this Mercosur study. We had steel on the previous panel. Three of you have told us that you see no opportunities here, and in fact, potentially, that the one-way economic load is really exacerbated by this deal. That's quite interesting considering that we're putting a lot of resource behind this potential agreement.
Mr. DiCaro, I would like to speak with you a little bit about labour, because obviously you've been involved in quite a detailed way around NAFTA and the labour provisions that are being considered in a renegotiated NAFTA. You mentioned the 1998 social labour declaration that, like NAFTA, is non-binding, unenforceable, and has had much resistance from Brazil in particular. What I'd like to hear from you is what would need to be included in labour provisions in all agreements going forward. If we're setting a standard in NAFTA, what is that standard and why are we unevenly applying this to other deals and not using this as a pattern going forward?
National Representative, Unifor
There are a couple of things in there. To your direct question about what needs to be in any labour chapter of any trade agreement, I think it starts off with a fundamentally different approach from what we've done in the past. I think we're seeing the outcomes of that with respect to a lot of social unrest and a lot of concern around the rights of working people not “growing”, for lack of a better phrase, in tandem with the areas of productivity, profits, and other measures. I think a clear example of that is using these trade agreements as facilitators of this process of globalization but having simply aspirational goals with regard to labour and other social conditions—conditions that get whipsawed, in a lot of ways, by the workings of trade and the machinations of trade.
One thing we've called for consistently, which now appears to have gotten some support from Global Affairs and Canada, is creating more binding and enforceable provisions. We would take that a step further and say that a lot of the social conditions of trade have to be met before trade can occur, as opposed to creating long-drawn-out processes of trying to fix problems once they've already been created. This is something we're eager to see developed in all forms of free trade negotiation. I think there's some progress being made in NAFTA—we don't know where that's going to land—and the Pacific Alliance, to our understanding. There's an eagerness to look at things in these terms.
That's really the crux of the criticism that we know from our allies in South America around that 1998 declaration and Mercosur more broadly. It's one thing to have aspiration, but the rubber is hitting the road on this. I think it's imperative that we start treating the enforceability of these social conditions on the same par as we would treat market access provisions.
NDP
Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON
Has Global Affairs mentioned that they recognize that these provisions need to applied in Mercosur? Have you done any consultations with Global Affairs, on Mercosur specifically, on the level that you have in NAFTA?
National Representative, Unifor
I think we as well as others have participated, at this point, in just one broad stakeholders briefing on Mercosur. Essentially, it was an issue around what the timetables could look like and so forth. I have no intel about what the actual proposal is. I can only glean what I'm taking from news reports and comments from the minister. There seems to be a level of heightened ambition around these progressive trade ideas. As I mentioned in my remarks, that is welcome, but as to what that looks like in practice, how it's manifested in proposals, and whether this signals a sufficient sea change in how Canada would consider social conditions of trade in the context of Mercosur, it's still unclear. We're committed to working with government on this. We're hoping they do show some strong ambition on this front.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking
We'll move over to the Liberals now.
Madam Lapointe, you have the floor.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Welcome everyone.
I have a question for Ms. Citeau, who represents the agri-food sector overall.
Maple products are produced primarily in Quebec and the U.S. northeast. Do you think there is a market in Mercosur countries that could be expanded?
Executive Director, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance
Our members include sugar producers and processors. It is the same thing. Opportunities are limited, and I think there is a lot of competition in that part of the world. Right now, they are more concerned about NAFTA and what will happen with the negotiations and with their access to the U.S. and Mexican markets. As you know, sugar producers were excluded from the initial NAFTA agreement.