Evidence of meeting #106 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was air.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Thank you very much. That's all the time we have.
We're going to move over to the NDP and Ms. Ramsey. The floor is yours.
10:05 a.m.
NDP
Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON
First of all, I don't think that my colleague means to mischaracterize the fact that this is not a government consultation. This is a committee. We operate independently of the government. I want that to be clear.
We view the government's obligation to consult with indigenous people very seriously. I want to ask you specifically about some criteria for what you think a full consultation would look like for indigenous people in Canada.
10:05 a.m.
Chair in Indigenous Governance, Department of Politics & Public Administration, Ryerson University, As an Individual
First off, it literally has to be the federal government going to first nations, not the Assembly of First Nations, not political organizations, but the rights holders themselves, and providing information on what's potentially in these agreements, who benefits, and what the potential negative impacts are, so that they can make informed decisions about whether they want to be in or out.
In order to be out, there needs to be opt-out provisions for people with aboriginal title, for example, who don't want timber or minerals taken from their territory for the purposes of any of these free trade agreements. They need to be able to opt out if, after all their free and prior consultation process, their answer is no. The current Prime Minister said specifically, before he was elected, that no means no for first nations, and we expect him to live up to that. Nowhere is that more important than in these international free trade agreements.
There are first nation experts who work on international trade issues, who work on the legal issues, who would be more than able to do this. Certainly, doing a token political appointment of the national chief of the Assembly of First Nations on an advisory committee to a minister who doesn't even attend the free trade negotiations is not what we're talking about when we're talking about direct participation and decision-making.
10:05 a.m.
NDP
Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON
Thank you.
I also want to correct the.... I'm not sure what my colleague meant by “many”, but I can tell you that it's been less than 10 that we've seen across all the agreements that you mentioned, so it certainly hasn't been a huge proportion of representation.
So, welcome to the trade committee where we often have very different witnesses before us, as we do today. You can see how wide and diverse the issues are that we have to face when we're looking at these trade agreements.
I want to thank Jonathan, with Laval International, and Tim, with Cavalier. These are major companies. These are local job creators for us in Windsor-Essex, and I want to congratulate you on how you've been able to sustain the downturn in our economy. You've diversified. I think you're an example going forward.
I want to talk more broadly about trade agreements. We're here about Mercosur, where I hear you say that you have this potential. You see some potential going forward. I wonder if you could speak a bit to TPP and NAFTA, and what it is in trade agreements that you need to see for your future success in our region.
10:10 a.m.
Chairman, Canadian Association of Moldmakers
I would like to thank you for those kind words. It hasn't always been easy to try to be a manufacturer in Canada. We've had good times and we've had bad times.
We face a strong headwind with the sentiment towards manufacturing in Canada, which we do feel very strongly. I will say that, for us, regarding all of the free trade agreements, we still believe that NAFTA is the key. Mercosur is a good move. CETA is a good move. We believe CPTPP will show very little benefit to the small to medium-sized businesses, which is almost our entire industry, if not all manufacturing in Canada. We definitely say that, if you do not negotiate a good NAFTA agreement, all of the free trade agreements that we rely on, CETA, CPTPP, and Mercosur, will be for nothing. We do not see it changing our dependency on the U.S.
Currently Canada exports about 76% to the United States. We don't believe that any of these agreements will show any great move to moving the needle away from that. Whatever we continue to make, more than likely at least 60% to 70% of it will live and die by the United States. We don't see that changing.
We have spoken to the PMO's office. We could give you some advice. We need a good agreement in NAFTA. We could live with bad agreements in the rest of the world, but we need a good agreement in NAFTA for us to be able to prosper as a nation, and I won't change that sentiment.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Thank you very much.
We're going to complete the round back over to the Liberals.
Mr. Peterson, sir, you have five minutes. The floor is yours.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you to our witnesses for being here.
I appreciate your sentiment there, but I don't think it will come as a surprise that you're not the only one saying that. I think most people agree with that, for sure. Canada's economy, I think, will float or sink because of what's going on in the U.S., and NAFTA has a key role. I think we all agree. At least all the witnesses we've heard from who have ranked the trade agreements have all ranked NAFTA as number one, so we appreciate that sentiment.
I want to talk a little about your industry. We've had good representation of automotive people around the table. Of course, Ms. Ramsey is from Windsor, Mr. Carrie is from Oshawa, and I'm from Newmarket—Aurora, the home of Magna. It's good to see this. We always like to hear from stakeholders in the automotive industry like you.
I want to talk a little about advanced manufacturing. It seems to me that you guys are clearly embracing technology, but do you see changes such as 3-D printing, robotics, and things like that? Are you able to embrace that? Is that a threat to you or an opportunity? How do you see these technological changes, which are inevitable, as you know?
10:10 a.m.
Director, Canadian Association of Moldmakers
We've already embraced them. It's part of our manufacturing process now, and 3-D printing and additive manufacturing is a very large and increasingly growing segment of our business. We work pretty closely with a number of places such as Fraunhofer, for example.
In our big trade show coming up in Florida in a couple of weeks, we'll have an entire area designated to us, to that technology. As far as robotics goes, Jon has it and we have it. If you don't have it in your plant, you're not going forward. If you have not embraced technology, that's our advantage. Labour is not cheap and we employ lots of people, but they're highly skilled, highly technical people.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
I think that highlights exactly the achievements of your industry, the growing number of innovative and well-trained people. The people working for you are usually IT people or robotics engineers, which are great-paying jobs. I think it's great for your association and for our communities that your members have facilities and obviously great-paying jobs.
I know NAFTA is key, and the other ones are good, but talk a little about the supply chain of your members, especially 3-D printing and additives in manufacturing, which are new. Where do you guys source that? Is that internationally sourced, or are you able to source the inputs from Canadian suppliers?
10:10 a.m.
Director, Canadian Association of Moldmakers
Yes to both. There are local sources for it. Because of our proximity to the U.S. and Michigan, it's obviously an area for us, because, as Jon alluded, our business has grown up.
In 75 years, we've built a very strong supply chain, geographically local as well as in the near area, that supports all aspects of our business. It's what makes us successful, that supply chain, but the world is getting smaller. We're bringing things from overseas. We incorporate components from many different nations. It's easy to do business around the world right now, and we're looking to do that.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Okay, that's good to hear. Diversification is good.
Ms. Palmater, I only have a short period of time, and I don't think you're going to be able to do my question justice, but I want to put it out there anyway.
What would you see as an ideal trade deal? I don't just mean the outcome. I mean the process as well. What would be an ideal situation? For negotiations, who's at the table? Whose voices are heard? In the ideal world, what would that look like?
10:15 a.m.
Chair in Indigenous Governance, Department of Politics & Public Administration, Ryerson University, As an Individual
Before negotiations even start, the federal government has already consulted with first nations and gotten their perspectives and their consent on things like the annex list of what's a tradeable good. What should be on there? Most first nations would say water shouldn't be a tradeable good, so these are the kinds of things that can be dealt with long before you get to the negotiating table. That way you're not in a position of going back and forth.
The other thing is making sure you have consent or opt-outs for very specific regions, and they're going to differ. Different regions have different concerns. Some are fish, some are timber, and some are land. At a bare minimum, each of these has to go through an indigenous rights analysis and a gender-based analysis as part of that consultation process.
Then you're far more likely to get agreement, fewer legal challenges, and a trade agreement that respects a whole host of issues addressed by other groups. Indigenous peoples raise environmental issues, workers' rights, and safety. All of those things would be addressed and go a long way to addressing all of the social impacts of free trade agreements. As we know, NAFTA has been the worst for indigenous peoples in Canada, the United States, and Mexico.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Thank you, Mr. Peterson.
We're going to start our second round. I think we're going to get another three questioners in.
We'll start with Madame Lapointe.
You have five minutes.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you very much.
Welcome. My questions are for both of you.
The moldmaking industry is very interesting. You talked about high technology. Where does the machinery you use to make your products come from primarily?
10:15 a.m.
Chairman, Canadian Association of Moldmakers
I speak French, but I will answer in English.
The machinery that we use for our industry, is that what the question is?
It's very highly technical and highly expensive. I'll add to what Tim said before about our investments. Our industry is one of the only industries that I know of that expenses approximately 10% to 30% of their revenue per year back into their business in machinery. It's very expensive.
It's normally imported. It's not normally made in Canada, but there are CNC machines, presses, and EDMs. All of this equipment is very highly precise, and it's very expensive.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
10:15 a.m.
Chairman, Canadian Association of Moldmakers
It's very diverse. I would say that it's Italy, Taiwan, France, Germany, and the United States, but primarily not Canada.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Okay.
For the machinery from Germany, for instance, have you seen a change in tariffs as a result of the European free trade agreement?
10:15 a.m.
Chairman, Canadian Association of Moldmakers
You're asking if there's a difference in price in Germany.
It's very expensive.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
I am referring to any changes in tariffs since the new free trade agreement.
10:15 a.m.
Chairman, Canadian Association of Moldmakers
No, to be honest with you, most of it doesn't have high tariffs already. I don't see that it would be a big advantage.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Okay.
I will change subjects.
You use plastic. You have a 3D printer and everything the moldmaking industry produces. A movement has begun recently to reduce plastic waste. You have certainly heard that there is plastic waste in the oceans and in the Great Lakes.
Is this movement affecting your industry?