International Trade Committee on Oct. 18th, 2018

[Barry Zekelman]

If their mouth is moving, they're lying. They will lie, cheat and steal. They will circumvent and they will break every rule. You will try to penalize them, and they're done. I've seen it done. I've been in this business for 32 years, and I've spent tens of millions of dollars on trade cases. I've fought China from the very start. I've watched them circumvent through different countries, through different products. They don't even put the right information down on import forms. We've caught them importing containers of tubing that they labelled as books. They're the worst of the worst.

We've caught them shipping steel, and it's a self-certifying industry. They mark it as meeting certain specifications. I had it tested, and it was half of that. Those products were going into buildings, into schools, all right? You're talking about product that has half the strength of what they certified it to. They're terrible. They're absolutely terrible. They have a callous disregard for any of our rules, our safety and our sovereignty.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

You have 20 seconds, so you can't ask a question. You'll have to make a comment in 15 seconds.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Thank you. You talked about a non-specific quota. It's a total plan, say, 200 tonnes, whatever it is. The U.S. right now has a number in their head that they're going to allow to come into the U.S. The longer we delay negotiating something, the smaller that number gets, so what's left for Canada? Is that fair to say?

As they drag on for another year, let's say, there will be nothing left for us to actually come into as far as a quota amount is concerned.

[Barry Zekelman]

Yes, I would agree with that.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

I'd give us as much as we can, as soon as possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, Mr. Hoback.

[Barry Zekelman]

That's right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

We have enough time, I think, for the NDP to have three minutes.

Go ahead, Ms. Ramsey.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Barry, for your testimony here today. It's very important, I think, that people hear the things that you're bringing forward.

Like you, I'm really worried about people's jobs. I think we've had a lot of great conversations today about what we need to do, and the reasons that we're not is still mind-boggling to many of us, as we have company after company come and sit before this committee and tell us they are shutting their doors for down weeks. They are laying people off. We're in a desperate situation that requires action immediately. If there's been this deal sitting there and they haven't taken advantage of it, shame on this government for costing people their jobs and costing people their businesses, because that is what's happening right now.

I really do want to go back to the fact that if we solve this and we get some type of resolution with the U.S., we still have these issues facing us. We still have them breaking the rules. I've had my colleagues here ask questions of other businesses about what that looks like.

I wonder if you can share a little more. You gave us one example of the tubing labelled as books. I would like you to share with my colleagues the way that they're cheating the system— just a couple of examples. What do you think the CBSA needs to do to prevent this from being dumped into our country?

[Barry Zekelman]

First, I'd like to say that it's a shame our Prime Minister is more concerned about getting Canada high than actually keeping jobs here. That's the big news today, about getting Canada high. How about having some jobs?

Anyway, they change tariff codes. They cheat on tariff codes. There are product substitutions. They lie on the duty entry forms. They transship through other countries.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Yes.

[Barry Zekelman]

It's all over the place. We just put up with it. Again, I spent 36 months beating a piling case of China only to have them import it from India after they changed tariff codes twice on me. That's why I say it has to be a product quota, not a country.

All he did was move it to India. Once we're done beating India, he'll move it to Thailand. Once we're done beating Thailand, it's five years down the road and $4 million, and I still haven't produced a tonne of the product. It has to be product-specific, not country-specific, if we're going to put those quotas on, because there are just too many ways to cheat. It's Whac-A-Mole.

You're right. This thing needs to be dealt with today or this week to get Canadians back to work.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

That pretty well sums up our day. What a feisty day we had.

Thank you, witnesses, for joining in. We have to leave the room now. That ends today's meeting.

The meeting is adjourned.