International Trade Committee on May 19th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

We're going to move on to the Conservatives. Mr. Ritz, five minutes. Go ahead.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Five minutes goes by quickly.

I agree with you, Minister. The standard of living certainly goes up here and abroad when we enter these trade agreements. Since we're not going to have time with the officials after, I have a couple of questions for Deputy Hogan.

When we first got into the agreement, the U.S. were holding us out when Prime Minister Harper got us into the agreement. How many chapters were closed? We were able to reopen a few pertaining to agriculture with cheese compositional standards. We were able to rewrite some of those closed chapters. How important was that?

[Christine Hogan, Deputy Minister of International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

I don't have the specific details, Mr. Ritz, about the specific numbers of chapters that were outstanding at the time of Canada's entry into the TPP. We can find that out for you.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Sure.

I also know it was important when we were negotiating on TPP that we used CETA as a lever to get the attention of the other groups, especially the Americans who were against us being a part of that.

How important would it be to use that in reverse, by using CETA as a lever to get into TPP, but also using TPP to continue to press forward and complete CETA?

[Christine Hogan]

I think the world generally has appreciated Canada's approaches on free trade agreements. We have a strong reputation in that regard. At the time of entry into the TPP, people would have been well aware of the ongoing negotiations with CETA.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Absolutely.

I have one last point. Have you any idea, with the TPP negotiations moving forward, how many business groups and other groups signed non-disclosure clauses to take part in those briefings moving forward? I know there were dozens. I wonder if it would be appropriate to have a list of those.

The whole concept that this was done in secret is ridiculous, because I know there were a lot of briefings Kirsten Hillman, the main negotiator, took on, and I know that labour and academia were offered the opportunity, whether they took it up or not. It would be important if we could have a look at that list, if that would be possible.

[Christine Hogan]

I'd be happy to follow up on that.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Great. Thank you.

Minister, over the last number of years it was important that Agriculture Canada and CFIA had people embedded in embassies and consuls around the world as our SWAT team, if you will. Most of the cost was borne by Agriculture Canada, but there are costs to Trade and to Global Affairs now.

Since we're not talking about the estimates, is there a movement to maintain that ability?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Like other people around the table, I know you, but I also know Randy, and I know our chairman, Mark. The last time I spoke to him was on his farm and mending fences.

We all have a strong personal interest in advancing Canada's agricultural interests in trade.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

It's one of the bigger benefactors of free trade.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

I agree with that. I'm in close contact with our producers. The Canadian Cattlemen's Association was with me in Brussels when we went to speak about CETA.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

The question is, are you going to maintain that footprint?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

I believe in the importance of having agricultural representatives, and diplomats who are well versed in agricultural issues, around the world advancing our interests.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Good. Thank you.

All the provinces support TPP. I'm wondering how they felt when they were left out. None of them have made that complaint. They've all felt this is something we should move forward on.

You also made the comment that NAFTA has grown our GDP by 3.4%, and I agree with you. I also see TPP as an enhancement of NAFTA. There are things we're gaining through TPP.

If we don't do this, and other countries do, and if we let the Americans, as my colleague said, Mr. Trump, decide how this is going to work this out—and I know there is a movement afoot to move beyond the Americans should they stumble and fall on this issue—how quickly do you see that eroding away from us and jobs being lost, and not just in the computer modelling that Tufts did, if we're not part of TPP and the Americans do move forward?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

I think that is an important question. When we talk about the economic impact of TPP, which we've already been discussing a little, it's important that our modelling look at two possible scenarios. The first is the economic impacts of Canada being inside the TPP, and we need to look carefully at the winners and losers inside Canada and the aggregated impact.

The second, and I strongly agree with you, is that we need to model, and it's something that I've asked the department to do that we're looking at carefully. We have to have a second clear picture—and that needs to be something as the study is completed that we share with Canadians—of what it would look like for Canada to have a world in which 11 TPP countries move forward and we do not.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

A lot of the—

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, folks.

Your five minutes are up, Mr. Ritz.

We're going to go for four minutes now with Ms. Ludwig.

Go ahead.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you. Thank you all for being here. Thank you so much, Minister, for the work that you have done, and thanks to David Lametti. My background is in the area of international trade, so my questions will lead in that direction.

First I want to comment on the consultations that have been done across the country and the positive feedback that I have heard as a result of that. Even though someone may have issues.... For example, on TTP we heard from young high school kids in Toronto. When I spoke with them on the side they were absolutely thrilled to be able to go to the microphone.

I also want to emphasize that the reason for having open mike came as a result of the feedback from the western provinces that individuals did want to be involved more. They were involved and represented by, for example, the Council of Canadians. The individual consultations as a model is an important one because, based on the number of people who attended, to go to the open mike, they either had two or three minutes to present. Our witnesses are getting five. I think it is a good example of representation, and I'm very pleased about that.

On the area of trade, certainly, export readiness is something that we heard from across the country. We know that roughly 98% of businesses are small to medium, and they are represented by associations at the panel. I represent New Brunswick Southwest, which has a population of 70,000 in a region of roughly 2.3 million. Trade is absolutely critical for us. So, Madam Minister, I'd like you to comment on the plan for export readiness. In our riding we are doing workshops on export readiness, but I'm wondering if is there a plan for a rollout to introduce more of the programs that are so excellent in this country to more of the small and medium-sized businesses.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you very much for the question. Thanks for the point you make about consultation.

I know the nature of our Parliamentary system is that we have robust debates, and that's important, and I welcome it. On the point of the consultations, though, I want to say something very sincere here about the consultations. I think we all do have, really across the spectrum, an understanding of the importance of trade to Canada. I think we also understand, and my Conservative colleagues have referred to this, that there are protectionist tides rising in a lot of other countries. I truly believe that for Canada to retain real public support for our being an open economy—and that is in question in so many other parts of the world—it's essential for us to bend over backwards to talk to Canadians. We cannot consult too much. We really need people to know that there is an open dialogue, that they are heard. The work of the committee in open mikes, in particular, is so important.

Are you cutting me off now?

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

I don't want to interject, but she had a good question about small and medium—You only have a minute left, and I was hoping you would get to her question.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Okay, I'll do that quickly.

I also totally agree on the small and medium-sized businesses. It's part of maintaining public support for trade. It's also really important because they are a huge part of the Canadian economy. They have a harder time plugging into trade than big companies. We have a program called CanExport. I think you all know about it, and this is something that we've worked on in carrying forward the trade agenda of the previous government. I am really proud of it. We launched it in January. Since its launch on January 5, we've approved $6 million. We have $10 million a year going into the program. We have approved $6 million already. How the program works is that it is 50-50 cost sharing, and you can ask as a small business—and please share this in your riding, I've shared it in my newsletters—

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

We're going to have to—

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

I have to stop, okay. It's a great program, though, and I do think we need to do more on that, and we're going to be unrolling an export and investment strategy that has a real focus and some more specific tools to help small businesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Van Kesteren, you have three minutes.

Go ahead.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Minister, for being here this morning.

I'm glad to hear your remarks. You actually took some of my time to speak about your commitment. I appreciate that. When I say that, I mean that you answered a question I was going to ask you—which frees some of my other time—about your commitment to trade. That is really important to me as a member of Parliament, maybe as a Conservative member, but as somebody who is fully committed to trade.

I too am a free trader. I see the benefits. There's much more to free trade than just the GDP growth. One has to look at our hockey teams back in the 70's, and then the Soviets came. We improve when we engage other people. I think that's something all of us recognize.

In our travels we've done a number of consultations. We've had great travel across the west, across Quebec, and Ontario, and we're looking forward to going to the east. There seems to be a prevailing theme within industry, with a few exceptions. I think Ford Motor Company wasn't too keen on this deal, but for the most part all of industry is gung-ho, “We have to get this going.”

Then there's another group. I think you could probably lump them under labour—NGOs, civil society, the Communist Party was there, the Marxist-Leninists were there—and they had a number of concerns.

My question to you is, have you identified those concerns? As a ministry, have you sat down and said, these are the things they are concerned about?