International Trade Committee on June 14th, 2016

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

We have to continue to build on the working relationship, no question.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Bellegarde, you said that you had never been consulted on any of the international trade agreements. You mentioned NAFTA.

Since you were not consulted, have steps been taken in this regard?

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

Not yet. No, we have not done anything on any of these international agreements because of a number of things. Number one is capacity in terms of proper analysis as well as proper legal challenges. It takes resources, both human and financial, to do these things properly. There aren't those kinds of resources available to do a proper analysis and to do a proper legal fight.

Again, on all of these things, they can go back; I can go back 100 years to different pieces of legislation, both domestically and internationally, that impact in a negative way on our rights. Again, capacity is the issue.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Ms. Palmater spoke about this before.

Have your organizations studied the costs and benefits of the TPP for aboriginal peoples in Canada? Have such studies been conducted?

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

No, we have not done any great in-depth analysis of the pros and cons of these things. That's work we need to engage in as soon as possible because these are huge agreements and there's a lot of work involved.

I just want people around the table—NDP, Liberals and Conservatives—to get the point that we need to be involved. We need to have inclusion to protect our rights, but as well, there are economic opportunities and employment opportunities, yes, but as well the rights protection is key. We haven't been involved historically in any meaningful way, shape, or form.

It's 2016 now, and we have to. I think it's really in the best interest of this country and the world to do that, respecting indigenous peoples rights no matter where you are.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Weinstein, you spoke about labour mobility and green cards for workers under agreements with the United States. I suppose you were referring to the TPP and NAFTA. Can you tell us a bit more about that?

[John Weinstein]

Yes. There are many Métis communities south of the border. The Métis nation emerged before the 49th parallel was established. There are tremendous linkages between the Métis communities, for instance, in southern Manitoba and southern Saskatchewan and the Métis communities in the Dakotas, Minnesota, and Montana.

The U.S., unlike Canada, doesn't recognize the Métis at all. Historically, the political consciousness of the Métis was much greater in Canada, where you had the Riel resistance, and stuff like that, and Métis provisional governments. South of the border, the American government did not deal with them as distinct people. Either they took land as settlers, white settlers basically, or they'd go to Indian reserves. That was the policy. In fact, there are some reserves in South Dakota that are predominantly Métis, and where the Michif language has been better preserved than in Canada.

For the Métis people, in terms of kinship and history, that border is artificial. A lot of Métis historically would work down in the United States. For a long time, the U.S. policy, even though they didn't have a Métis policy, would allow the presidents of the Métis provincial organizations to write letters confirming that people were Métis, and then they could get green cards to work down there.

I'm not saying it's because of NAFTA, or prior to that the Free Trade Agreement, that all of a sudden that disappeared, but there's been a tremendous erosion in that. Now I think it's pretty much impossible for Métis to get green cards to work in the United States, even though a lot of them like to work down.... Some go to New York and L.A., but a lot of them work in Minneapolis and the Dakotas. It's a big problem that's had a tremendous impact on livelihood.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, Madame Lapointe.

That ends the first round.

We're going to the Liberals, and leading off the second round is Ms. Ludwig.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you all for your excellent, well-informed presentations. All I can say is, wow, thank you very much.

Listening to you, there were definitely some themes that I heard. They included the importance of strengthening our nation-to-nation relationship, the need for aboriginal economic stability and prosperity, the territory-to-market access, the legal interpretations, and also the slowing down of the process.

Mr. Bellegarde, you had mentioned the need for trade services for first nations, as well as trade investment funding. Are you familiar with any examples internationally that are good models?

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

Not off the top of my head.

I'm looking at my staff. No? Nothing.

There might be, but I can't think of anything off the top of my head, where, “Hey, yes, this is doing...”. No. I'm drawing a blank.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

I'm going to make a note of that for our studies as well.

Thank you.

What about opportunities for exports and threats from imports? Looking at your communities and the distinct opportunities that are there, what are some of the opportunities you see for exporting from Canada, as well as the threats from imports?

I would also like to hear a bit more about labour mobility. We've heard from other witnesses about threats regarding labour mobility, but certainly, Mr. Weinstein, you're talking about the opportunities in labour mobility.

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

In terms of exports, I'll go back to Chief Reg Bellerose of Muskowekwan with potash. It's the only first nation in Saskatchewan.... They're right in the potash belt. It's Treaty No. 4 territory. They've done a lot of work with Encanto to look at developing the market. They have an offtake agreement with India to supply so many metric tons to India. That's a huge opportunity. I think there should be proper supports given from indigenous affairs, because they have to go through all these hoops, and everything else sets there, and then of course there's foreign affairs and international trade. That's one piece. There's a huge opportunity there.

Then you go around the country. If you go into British Columbia, there's unextinguished aboriginal title to the forests. There would be a huge opportunity there as well for the first nations in that territory to do logging in a sustainable way.

You look where all the natural resources are, and then you look to the indigenous peoples in terms of export. You can even look on the east coast if you want to start exporting lobster or anything else. Look at Eskasoni. Look at Membertou. Chief Terry Paul is doing great things just outside Sydney at Membertou.

There are different places. You just have to look at each territory, look at the natural resource wealth and what is being exported. That is where you start looking at partnerships with indigenous peoples and governments. That has to get done.

In terms of the labour mobility piece, this is Canada's biggest gem. The fastest-growing segment of Canada's population is young first nations men and women. Investing in education and training is key. That has to be the big thing.

As well, the whole temporary foreign workers.... We have to get our young men and women involved, more so, getting them educated, getting them the skills, the training, and life skills so that they can be effective in these jobs. That is where we have to find that balance. I know the prairie provinces.... TILMA, the Trade, Investment and Labour Mobility Agreement, is one of the things between the provinces. However, a lot of our people stay home in their communities. You have to start looking at creative things, such as busing from the first nations reserve. All sorts of things can happen. The bottom line is that you have human capital growing here. Invest in human capital.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Certainly, I would imagine that broadband Internet would also be an issue in a number of areas, so the trade of services would also—

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

Infrastructure, access.... Yes, definitely. It is all linked.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Are there any threats from imports?

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

Let me think about that and come back to you.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Okay.

[Dr. Pamela Palmater]

The biggest threat to indigenous trade import or export is Canada itself. Despite having treaties that guarantee the right to trade and our own self-governing and aboriginal rights to trade, Canada has made things like gaming and tobacco criminal acts. It does not recognize the Jay Treaty and our right to cross and work over the border, as the United States does. Many of our people are in jail or suffer fines from the Canada Revenue Agency in the hundreds of millions of dollars because of the crackdown on our own right just to maintain economies, let alone trade. Oftentimes we are prohibited or monitored when we do any international trade scenarios.

This isn't a process. We can't save the TPP. We are not in negotiations. It is a done deal. It has already violated the Constitution. It already violates our rights. It cannot be fixed. The worst and biggest threat to us.... We already have transnational corporations and domestic ones destroying our territories. Imagine allowing more international ones into our territories when we can't even sustain ourselves or protect our territories.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you.

We are going to the Conservatives now, for five minutes.

Mr. Hoback, you have the floor.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you all for being here this morning.

Mr. Weinstein, you talked about a letter to Mr. Lametti about your views. Could you send that letter to the committee?

[John Weinstein]

Yes.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Great, that would be appreciated.

Mr. Bellegarde, a lot of the things you talked about, your five points, wouldn't be just TPP-related; they would be related to any type of trade deal. Would that not be fair to say?

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

Yes.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Whether we are talking CETA, NAFTA, or let's say Canada-China or Canada-India trade deals, you would still want to have that.