International Trade Committee on June 14th, 2016

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

Yes.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Okay.

You talked about trade commissioners. Are first nations able to use the existing trade commissioners who are already positioned around the world, or do you think it needs to be enhanced with aboriginal content, for lack of a better word?

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

It needs to be enhanced. Some things are there, but it is weak. Again, when you think of 634 first nations and 58 different nations, how are they involved in international trade? It is weak.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

It is always a problem. You have all these people. All have different needs and wants, and you try to spread that around the world. It is pretty tough. How do we utilize what is there to the maximum benefit, including first nations?

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

I think you have to start looking at all your key government departments and have an indigenous forum as part of advising the minister and the cabinet on each of these files. You have to have indigenous peoples involved within export, or whatever the department is. I don't know if they have that. If they do, they have to beef that up. That applies to every government department.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

In the technical summary, I will just read one point. It states:

Ensures full policy flexibility so that Canada can maintain or adopt new measures concerning rights or preferences provided to Aboriginal peoples and minority groups.

When you go into the actual agreement, for example, under government powers or state trading enterprises, aboriginal is protected. It is identified right in the agreement itself. When I see that, it looks to me like we have a lot of flexibility to protect the rights of first nations and aboriginals within the agreement itself on the TPP. Are you aware of that?

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

I am not totally aware of it, to be quite honest. I have to get more of my head around that whole clause. The only thing I would say.... If that is the only clause they have in there, what is the practical application?

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Gerry talked about how it is embedded into our Constitution and our charter. Basically, what it is doing is saying that all those policies and principles, even if they haven't been defined yet by us, are protected.

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

That's a good thing, but you have to build upon it and be clear on it. Is it going to respect section 35 rights? Are there going to be references to the UN declaration rights? Is it going to be the human rights-based approach, looking at the—

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

I'm a bush lawyer like you, so there's more to be fleshed out, for sure. I hear where you are coming from.

The ability is there. It's been put into the actual agreement itself. I guess we'd have to look at CETA to make sure it's there. Whether it's in NAFTA or other agreements.... When they talk about the three amigos coming forward, maybe that's something that should be added into any future agreements.

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

What's the mechanism to ensure that's respected?

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

That's always an issue.

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

What are the mechanisms that are there to make sure these rights are followed up, implemented, respected, and honoured? That's always going to be the big thing, the mechanism and the process.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Again, the courts are that mechanism. You have the ability through the courts to ensure that this is maintained.

When we look at the trade investment fund you talked about, how do you see that operating? I know you didn't get a lot of time to talk about it. Do you want to flesh that out a little more on what that would look like?

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

I'm going to turn to the best legal counsel, my technician who put the notes together. I just like talking.

[William David, Senior Advisor, Assembly of First Nations]

This is hardly my strong suit, sir, but the trade investment fund that I believe we're looking at is a consolidated fund to provide, essentially, capacity support that you would run with the trade commissioner service for first nations that are looking to engage in export, as well as for those first nations that may be impacted one way or another through the TPP and through foreign investments.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Right now I'm not sure what the current government is doing—and they might have a different title—but the previous government had workshops called Go Global, where they went to all the different cities throughout Canada and talked about how to utilize EDC, BDC, and CCC, Canadian Commercial Corporation, and learn from other people who are trading their experiences. How do we include first nations in that, to ensure they have the chance to participate in that?

My other question is whether, in these negotiations, and these are very public negotiations, there was anybody who said you couldn't be part of the consultation process.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

We just have a half a minute, so be quick on the answers.

[William David]

I'll be very quick.

To answer your first question, I believe it would really be better to have its own separate fund, part and parcel because of the experience first nations have had.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Build on first nation to first nation....

[William David]

With respect to the second one, as far as I'm concerned you have to be able to be informed. For example, the travaux have not been of use to us—

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

There are a lot of opportunities to be informed, and that's what I'm trying to say. Was there anybody preventing you from being part of it? Were you told, no, you couldn't be at this open house on TPP, or no, that you couldn't participate with the minister on this conference call?

[William David]

Nobody has ever provided us the travaux for the TPP.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

We have to move on.

We'll go to the Liberals now.

Mr. Fonseca, go ahead for five minutes.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for your presentations and for just how broad and historically deep they were.

I'll just follow along on this Constitution and constitutional duty, and the legalities. I'm a bush lawyer myself here, and I just wanted to ask if you feel the previous government met their legal duty in terms of their consultation with aboriginal communities.

I'll start with Mr. Bellegarde.