International Trade Committee on Feb. 18th, 2016

[Kirsten Hillman]

Correct.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Okay. I just have a minute left. Mr. Fonseca, do you have a quick question that would only takes a minute or so? I know you were cut off, or do you want to let it go?

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Chair, you are so kind. It is a very short one.

I don't know if this is actually captured in the TPP, but it's around off-shoring. Is that something that was discussed?

[Kirsten Hillman]

Do you mean sending Canadian workers abroad? Is that what you mean?

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

I mean sending Canadian workers abroad or even having our services being done through some of the other countries.

[Kirsten Hillman]

Well, no. The worker issue is in the context that I've just been discussing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you.

It was a very good meeting with a lot of information. Of course, committee members, if you need any more information, they're always willing to give you more. They're accessible.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Is there more time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

That's it for the panel, but we're going to stay public with this meeting and we're going to go to Mr. Lametti.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Okay, as we discussed before, we're going to have 10 minutes with the parliamentary secretary to give us a little snapshot of where ministers are travelling, and we're also going to make sure there's a lot of time for questions.

The floor is yours, Mr. Lametti.

[David Lametti, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Trade]

It's a pleasure to be here in this role, so thank you very much.

I would like to give you a brief overview of what we have done until now with the minister in these consultations. Some people have asked which persons and which groups have been consulted, and so on. As parliamentary secretary, I am here precisely to answer your questions. As for the process that has taken place to date and which we will be pursuing, the information I am going to share with you could help to guide your deliberations and consultations.

After we were elected in October, the minister began, immediately after she was appointed, to consult with people. A number came to her, but also we set out to do our best to go across the country and to begin to consult a variety of people in different sectors. When I was appointed at the beginning of December, I joined in on the process, and I can certainly speak to the people whom I have consulted with, just from my own notes.

There was industry. We have tried to touch base with: the agricultural industries, agrifood as well as animals; the seafood industries; manufacturing; both North American auto makers and Japanese auto makers who are in Ontario; the auto parts industry; the financial services industry through the chambers of commerce; the chamber of commerce itself; and other commercial participants in the economy. We've done our best to meet with trade unions and will continue to meet unionized labour, big and small. We've met with most of the major labour unions across the country. The minister has indeed been on the shop floor in a Ford plant in Oakville to discuss concerns with the actual membership. I met with port authorities across the country—I met with the Halifax Port Authority, for example. There's the pharmaceutical industry and also think tanks.

We'll eventually get a list out of what we've done so far. We have actively engaged in particular with universities and think tanks, a number of whom are very critical of the agreement in areas such as ISDS and intellectual property. If you consider the actual depth of consultation, in that regard in many ways it's much deeper. We had a full-day conference at the Munk School, organized by professors Dan Breznitz and Ariel Katz of the University of Toronto and the Munk School. It included Canada's leading critic on ISDS, Professor Gus Van Harten from Osgoode Hall Law School, and Michael Geist, one of the leading critics. Michael has been consulted a number of times in depth on various aspects of the TPP.

We've been out seeing everybody. We have heard opinions for and against. We've consulted with governments and with NGOs such as Médecins Sans Frontières. We have been hearing varied opinions for and against. We'll continue to do so as you deliberate as well, and you may want to hear some of the very same people we have consulted with—that's your prerogative—as you should. You need to illuminate every corner of the agreement that you feel needs illumination. We'll continue to do this as well. At the end of the day, we want to have the best information in front of us before we make a decision on ratification.

Again, there are strong opinions for and strong opinions against. We have seen very passionate pleas, if you will, to be included in the agreement, in particular stressing the downside of not being included in an agreement that goes forward without Canada. We've seen some very passionate critiques of various aspects of the agreement as well.

That's where we are. By all means, I am happy to answer questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, Parliamentary Secretary.

We have time for a few quick questions, maybe one from each party, if that suffices. Let's have quick questions and quick answers, without getting into too much debate.

Ms. Ramsey, do you have a question?

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

You mentioned a list. Is that something the committee will be provided, a list of those you've met with and ultimately a conclusion concerning where those groups stand, in terms of whether they are in favour or against?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

I think we could do that.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Since you've already done the consultations, it would save us time to know where they stand.

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

I think looking at the list you'll be able to predict pretty quickly whether they are for or against.

Some of the academic papers, by the way, are available online even as we speak.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Okay, that list will be helpful.

Also, what are your concerns? Clearly, there is a wide range of opinions on this. As you said, it can be very polarizing. Coming out of these, I think all of us in this room share a lot of concerns. That's why we're going to spend so much time studying it.

I wonder, then, after those consultations, what your concerns are about the agreement for Canada.

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

I share the concerns of the people who have raised concerns, and I understand the benefits of the people who have promoted benefits.

Did I hear anything in my own personal consultations that I didn't already know about? Yes, a few things, but they're the ones you've heard. The questions you've been raising are the kinds of concerns that people have. ISDS is a concern, as is the IP stuff. I was an IP professor for 20 years. I understand the IP provisions, and they are concerns.

On the other hand, I see the benefits. Speak to Saskatchewan farmers and they'll make it pretty clear where they stand, not just in agrifood but in the subsequent secondary manufacturing industries that surround it. It's not just big industry that can really see the benefit of this agreement, but small industry can as well.

At the end of the day, it's a sectoral trade agreement. There will be some areas of the economy that will benefit greatly and perhaps some that won't benefit. At the end of the day, we as a government have to make a decision to compare apples and oranges and say that we will be better off in or out, knowing that we're going to displease as many as we please, or whatever. But you have to try to weigh these things at the end of the day.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Mr. Hoback.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Thank you for doing this. This has helped us.

What are you going to do with the previous consultations that have been done by committees and the department beforehand? There have been consultations during the negotiations. There was a pre-study done by this committee in the last sitting of Parliament. Where is that data going and are you considering it?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

That's part of the mass. I think it's fair to say that you can have access to it if you want.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

What are you doing with it? Everybody in this room has access to it.

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

We'll look at it.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Have you been looking at it?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

I haven't personally. I've just come—