International Trade Committee on Sept. 29th, 2016

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Thank you, and thank you so much for your presentations.

This is the perfect wrap-up to our cross-country tour, because this is the crux of the issue. This is a deeply flawed agreement. Trade will go down with every country that we're currently trading with. According to our government's reports, we'll see negligible growth. There will be 60,000 jobs lost, ISDS, drug costs going up for every Canadian, no environmental protections....

I think, to Ms. Payne's point, it goes back to the way we're crafting them. I'm please to hear her quoting the minister in the way she supports and backs up the fact that these agreements have been negotiated in secret in very flawed processes and that accepting these agreements as they are will harm Canadians.

We need to find a way to benefit those who want to get into those markets and who want to get their products exported, but not at the expense of other Canadians and communities that exist.

I think we need to start at the beginning. I hope this trade committee will, in the future, sit and define “progressive trade”. We'll talk about where we go from here. We're entering into exploratory talks with other countries right now.

We need to create what will benefit both those who want to get into the sector and those who have serious issues with it because even those who want to get into the trade have non-tariff barrier issues. We heard that this morning regarding the lobster problems that exist in Sweden.

The TPP won't actually get us to where we need to go.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, this is the time for the witnesses.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

I'm going to ask a question.

[A voice]

Thank you, Karen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

The clock didn't start, so it's okay.

I remind all MPs not to get your questions in there at the end because it just makes it harder on the witnesses. I'm not picking on any MP. We all end up doing it. Just keep it in mind. You want your witness to be able answer the question properly.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

My question is actually going to go to Mr. Furlong, and it's about the ISDS.

Right now in Parliament we're debating and talking about the Paris climate accord and where we will go with that. It has been brought before this committee that ISDS will threaten that. Are we going to be able to implement those climate change targets with an ISDS provision against us?

[Alex Furlong]

Thank you, Ms. Ramsey.

First, before I answer her question I want to say to my panellists here that I love blueberries, but I also like fair and progressive trade that works for everybody in the country.

When you have investor state provisions, it behooves me to ask why any government would take that responsibility and put it to a third person, so to speak, because it makes it more difficult. Also, as we all know, it opens up this government and this country to be sued. You need look no further than NAFTA—I even hate to use that terminology—and the impacts that has had.

When you're talking about the environment and you're talking about what the impacts of the ISDS would have, you have to look no further than.... As Ms. Payne says, we're already trading with 97% of these countries. If you look at climate change around the world, we've got a lot of work to do. If Canada wants to be a progressive nation around climate change, and I think this government has opened up and said that, then we need to be able to do that in a progressive way, without the risk of having other countries block that progress.

I mean when you're talking climate change, I think it benefits everybody that we have the discussion, but for something to end up at the ISDS in an arbitral place—

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

We've been sued the most over environmental issues under ISDS in chapter 11.

My other question is, what will the impact of higher drug costs be on people in Nova Scotia?

[Alex Furlong]

Let's just look not only at Nova Scotia but in the Atlantic region and right across the country. As Ms. Payne noted, the Atlantic region is a resource-based economy. We depend on the fishery. We depend on the forestry sector and those industries.

People should not have to make a decision of whether to buy drugs or food and put their health at peril. The Canadian Federation of Nurses Unions have been calling for a pharmacare strategy for many years. It would have a negative impact if drug costs in this region escalate. We have seasonal workers in the Atlantic region and this population.... It just makes it more difficult for people to have to decide whether they can afford drugs. We know, and the studies have proven, that the cost of drugs and the production of generic drugs will go through the roof, and the production of generic drugs with the patents and everything will be very limited or blocked in its entirety.

It will have a devastating effect on this region, and I have no doubt right across the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Ramsey.

We're going to move on to Madam Lapointe.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to welcome the witnesses and I am very pleased to have you with us today.

If you do not understand French, I invite you to use the earphones to hear the simultaneous interpretation.

Mr. Hoffman, my questions are for you.

You said that having access to exports was very important, but it was still critical to develop new markets. You also said, or it may have been Mr. Peter who mentioned it, that the market for this in Japan began in 1970, and that for Vietnam it would be in the long term. I would like to hear your thoughts on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

We're going to stop the clock and help the audience with their headphones. Let's hold it for a second. You have to turn it on and put it on channel one. Is everybody good to go? Can everybody hear?

I'm sorry, Madam Lapointe.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

I appreciate the fact that the witnesses are using their earphones.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Your question, Madam Lapointe, was to Mr. Hoffman.

Go ahead, sir.

[David Hoffman]

Yes. Access to markets is critical. We know we have to be an exporting company and industry. We have reasonable access today to many markets. We do have some significant trade barriers and tariffs, which are major obstructions to access to new markets. Vietnam, for instance, would be one of those. Vietnam has a 30% duty today against wild blueberries. China has the same, plus an ad valorem tax that makes it 47%, and this is true of cultivated blueberries as well, I believe, from British Columbia.

These are major barriers to access to markets. Those are the kinds of things that we need to try to change.

In the long term, we think that Vietnam can be a good market for us. You don't change the cultural eating habits of people overnight, so you have to start and you have to develop the market and that can take a long time.

Not everybody wakes up in the morning and thinks about wild blueberries first thing. Some people do, but nobody in Vietnam does. Therefore, we have to get people thinking about that and understanding the benefits of wild blueberries so that they will change their eating habits and consume, hopefully, large volumes.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

You do not need to convince me, since I love blueberries.

How many people here, in Nova Scotia, work in processing or harvesting blueberries? Do you have trouble finding workers for this?

[David Hoffman]

I don't think I can give you the exact numbers. We have four plants that process wild blueberries in the Maritimes and two in Maine. We would probably employ, on the processing side, maybe 1,000 people, and more seasonally. On the harvest side, of course, there is a lot of effort during the harvest season and in the growing season as well, and there are probably at least as many again. It's a very significant industry in our area.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

All right.

You spoke about processing blueberries. When you export this product, what proportion of the blueberries has been processed, and how are they processed?

[David Hoffman]

When we talk about process, we're talking about having cleaned and frozen them. Generally they're packed into a 30-pound box. That would be the format for most of the exports. When we talk about process, it's cleaned and sorted. We go through a lot of those kinds of processes to make sure the quality is perfect so that when it arrives in the customer's premises, it's ready to put into whatever product they're ready to use.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

As you know, I come from Quebec. There as well, the blueberries harvested are processed to be used in cooking, among other things. Here, do you export chocolate-covered blueberries, for example?

[David Hoffman]

There's a very vibrant industry in Quebec, particularly in the Lac Saint-Jean area. They have certainly been successful in growing that industry. For the most part, we're not doing any further processing. That is done by our customers. They're putting it into a whole variety of products.

I think there was a scan of what was happening in the Japanese market, and they had something like 200 different products in the supermarkets in Japan. We're not trying to replace all of that with the processing here. We're trying to sell to the companies that know those markets and know the right products for those markets.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

I have one brief question for Mr. Furlong.

How many people work in the automotive industry in Nova Scotia?

[Alex Furlong]

I will turn that over to Ms. Payne.

[Lana Payne]

We have people employed in the selling of cars, but the manufacture of cars is in Ontario.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

That is also the case in Quebec.