Evidence of meeting #35 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lobster.
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking
Thank you, Madam Lapointe.
We're going to move over to Ms. Ludwig.
Go ahead. You have five minutes.
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
Thank you.
Thank you all very much for your presentations.
I'm going to ask my questions quickly because I want you to have as much time to respond as possible.
I represent a riding, New Brunswick Southwest, which is rich in blueberries, fisheries, aquaculture, sardines, and forestry. From working and talking with many of the companies, I know that they have diversified their markets and hedged some of their bets, like Mr. Hoffman. In your business you have operations in the U.S. as well as in Canada. In the times when trade has gotten really tight and regulations have been more rigid than some companies can manage to be profitable in, they've shifted some of their production to the United States. We've heard that across the country with forestry, certainly with aquaculture and fisheries, and now with blueberries.
I'll go with the panel. Let's take the position that the Canadian government does not ratify TPP. How does that look to all of you when you consider the blueberry industry, fisheries, aquaculture, sardines, and forestry?
We've heard from witnesses who have said one dollar in export is the equivalent of nine in return for services. Let's work with that and how we could best work that through, because we have not made a decision as a government on ratifying that agreement.
11:10 a.m.
Regional Director, Atlantic Region, Canadian Labour Congress
Let me just say, as Ms. Payne said, that we need fair and progressive trade.
The first place we would start is by not negotiating these agreements behind closed doors. That would be the first place to start. I would be so bold as to say that labour should be a partner or a player when these types of agreements are negotiated, just as corporations have an input into these types of trade deals. I have no doubt that has happened, and no one can convince me otherwise.
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
If I could ask a quick question on that, Mr. Furlong, were you consulted previous to this on TPP consultations?
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
11:10 a.m.
Co-Chief Executive Officer, Oxford Frozen Foods Ltd.
I think the major existing markets we have continue to be there if TPP is not ratified, and that would include the United States. Europe, of course, is not affected by TPP, and neither is Japan. We sold the first wild blueberries in Japan 40 years ago, and we continue to sell to the same customer and other customers there, so I think that will continue.
What TPP allows is for growth into the future. It allows us to expand our presence in Japan with the elimination of tariffs and gives us the opportunity to grow into new markets that we might otherwise be blocked from.
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
In those markets, what is the substitute for blueberries that one of you had spoken about?
11:10 a.m.
Co-Chief Executive Officer, Oxford Frozen Foods Ltd.
If you think about yogourt, we're an ingredient in fruit base in yogourt, so that you see blueberry yogourt. Think about all the other yogurts that are on the grocery shelf. You have strawberry, you have raspberry, you have peach, you have mango, and you have vanilla. We compete with all of those. That's our competition. We're truly in a worldwide competition with all fruits and other things.
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
11:10 a.m.
Atlantic Regional Director, Unifor
If we don't ratify the TPP, then we'll save a ton of jobs, that's for sure and certain.
You mentioned in your comments that even with a trade agreement with the United States, we're losing production to the United States. We should be concerned about what that means for losing production, potentially, to some of these countries involved in the TPP. This is what has happened in our history with trade.
The other thing is that we do have an example of a minister who currently has renegotiated a deal. She has gone and met with the European Union to say that we need to look at changing some of the language in CETA. I might say to you that the language doesn't go far enough, but we certainly have an example on the record of how you can fix a trade deal when one is badly in need of fixing.
We have to think, as I said in the beginning, about the broader context. In this case, the risks and the losses far outweigh the benefits in the TPP.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking
We're going to move on to our last MP.
Mr. Van Kesteren, you have the floor for five minutes.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you all for attending this last session.
It's been revealing and interesting. It was a great trip to be able to explore and see some of the Maritimes and see some of the industries. You have a lot of things to be proud of in this province and in the other provinces as well.
Ms. Payne, I want to ask...and I'm not looking for a fight, believe me.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
I want to ask you a question. You mentioned Ford. You're right: Ford came to us and said, “Don't do this deal.” The other two—now we're talking about the Detroit Three; we used to call them the Big Three, but now they're the Detroit Three—want us to do this deal. Ford has just announced, and you know this, that they're going to move all their production of their small cars to Mexico. How can we stop them from doing that?
11:15 a.m.
Atlantic Regional Director, Unifor
I'm not an expert in auto, but I do work for this union. I would say to you that we've had many good examples in the history of Canada of how we can boost production of cars in Canada. It starts with having an auto strategy for the country. Our union has done a ton of work on how—
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
You're playing the politician here. That's what we do. How do we stop them from going to Mexico?
11:15 a.m.
Atlantic Regional Director, Unifor
How do we stop them from going to Mexico? Well, we have a trade deal with Mexico, and now we're going to have a trade deal—if this goes through—with Japan, which will also have a negative impact on the auto industry. We could start by saying we're going to have incentives. I don't mean government money, but look at what everybody else is doing in order to support a prosperous auto industry. We just had a round of negotiations in which we created long-term jobs with GM in the Oshawa region of Ontario. We did that at a bargaining table. Can you imagine what a government could do if they got serious about having an auto strategy, if we can do that at a collective bargaining table?
You do want to have a fight. I see this.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
11:15 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
—and you don't take a knife to a gunfight.
You haven't answered the question. I'm really looking for an answer, because you mentioned General Motors. There have been rumblings from General Motors that they're going to pull out of Oshawa.
How do we stop American companies from pulling out? Incidentally, maybe we'll get into it if we have the time and we'll talk about what Donald Trump has been saying. How do we stop them from moving their facilities out of Canada into Mexico?
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
I'm looking for an answer. I'm really looking for an answer.