I think if you look at the cost to small and medium enterprises of using the ISDS, you could take the amount of money paid to the corporate lawyers to fight an ISDS case—we're talking about $3,000 a day as a normal fee for a lawyer involved in that—and that money would easily be enough for risk insurance for small and medium enterprises to deal with the risk of going into markets like that. I think as well the court systems.... I question why under CETA we don't trust the Canadian court system or the court systems in Europe to deal with this kind of trade dispute.
Again, you're saying we need an alternative to this. I think the ISDS is very badly stacked against southern countries and has tremendously high costs associated with it. I think it's based on the idea that the court systems in those southern countries don't work and I remain to be convinced of that.