Evidence of meeting #46 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was going.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Philippe Méla  Legislative Clerk
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Rémi Bourgault
Pierre Marc Johnson  Chief Negotiator of the Government of Québec for the Canada-European Union Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA) and Counsel, Lavery, de Billy, As an Individual
Jason Langrish  Executive Director, Canada Europe Round Table for Business
Louise Barrington  Fellow and Chartered Arbitrator, Chartered Institute of Arbitrators, As an Individual
Martin Valasek  Partner, Norton Rose Fulbright Canada LLP, As an Individual

Noon

Executive Director, Canada Europe Round Table for Business

Jason Langrish

Those are very interesting questions. We hosted an event at Canada House today, where Premier Gallant spoke, and really, I can just lift his comments.

I think what you're going to see first on the trade side is that Atlantic Canada is going to be a very major beneficiary. I think from Quebec eastwards on the trade front in particular.... I think all of Canada will benefit with the increase in farm trade and those types of things, but you have a natural export outlet and a relationship with the European Union. It will be in forestry, mining and minerals, fish and seafood, possibly petrochemicals, and industrial goods. There are a wide range of activities there.

With regard to services, for instance, in maritime transportation, the port of Saint John could see an increase in traffic, as would the port of Halifax and the port of Montreal. For professional services, it's across the board, wherever the professional services are operating, whether it be legal or consulting and those types of things. In such a comprehensive agreement, it's a negative list, in that everything is captured unless otherwise omitted. Wherever those services exist in New Brunswick and where there is a desire to sell those services outside of New Brunswick, it could be in the European Union. There will be opportunities.

With regard to investment, I think the real thing about investment is that it used to be that you invested and then it stimulated trade. What may be new now is that trade sort of follows investment. That's the nature of the game nowadays. For instance, let's say you're a wind turbine manufacturer. You create what you call a centre of excellence. You build your little supply chains into that location. You put that wind turbine manufacturing plant in a place where you feel that you have the greatest global export opportunity, the greatest opportunity to service as many people as possible in as large a market as possible.

Why free trade and investment facilitate that is the investment point: it protects the investment in the market. The elimination of tariffs, even if they are relatively small, makes it easier for the supply chains to develop all the inputs that will go into the manufacturing and assembly of the product. Then you have the duty-free access to be able to export that product to all the places with which you have free trade.

Any area where that dynamic could come into play could be advantageous for New Brunswick. It's very difficult to speculate, because economies are so complex, but I think the greatest opportunities would be with regard to the movement of goods eastward, going out through the ports of New Brunswick, probably from the resources and agricultural sector. I think we're going to see a large trade flow. Then there are the services that will really facilitate that, including customs, brokering, transportation, and the professional services that go around that, such as accounting and legal services and things like that.

Of course, it could be much broader than that, but that gives you an idea of how many different factors there are in these types of considerations.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Thank you.

That's certainly very good information for me to share with people in my riding in terms of getting ready for this and other agreements.

I want to read a quick quote to you as well. Steve Verheul, the chief trade negotiator, came before the committee on November 15 and stated:

CETA will not lead to forced privatization of public services. Canada has a long experience with the protection of public services in all trade agreements and is confident that CETA will allow for full policy flexibility.

How would Canadian municipalities or provinces be positively or negatively affected, and to what extent, by the opening of a Canadian subnational procurement market when CETA is ratified?

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Excuse me—

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Is that too big?

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

It's going to have to be a very quick answer. You only have half a minute.

12:05 p.m.

Executive Director, Canada Europe Round Table for Business

Jason Langrish

Was that question for me?

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB

It was.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Yes, but, sir, you'll have to give a quick answer, please.

12:05 p.m.

Executive Director, Canada Europe Round Table for Business

Jason Langrish

Okay. Just on that, there's nothing that compels privatization. What gets confused so often is the idea of fair, open, and transparent bidding with some exceptions with regard to municipal contracts and on municipal services, but there's nothing that compels a municipality, a provincial entity, or the federal government to privatize a service. The trade agreement does not do that. It just says that if you have a European there and a Canadian there and they both meet the criteria, their bids need to be treated fairly and equally.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you. That ends the first round.

We will start the second round with the Liberals. Mr. Fonseca, you have the floor.

Go ahead, sir.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fonseca Liberal Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses.

My first question is for Mr. Johnson.

I would ask you, Mr. Johnson, to take us behind the scenes to the inception of this agreement. It has been characterized as the gold standard for agreements and the way that things should be done in terms of its transparency, its engagement, its consultation, and the way it was structured and worked with the provinces and the municipalities. Can you take us behind the scenes in the work that you did and the leadership that you brought to this agreement from its start to where we are today? How did the buy-in from the provinces come about? Were there joint meetings with the federal and provincial governments? How did it all come together? How did it all work?

Can you give us some of that insight?

12:10 p.m.

Chief Negotiator of the Government of Québec for the Canada-European Union Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA) and Counsel, Lavery, de Billy, As an Individual

Pierre Marc Johnson

Initially the provinces had to be there; otherwise, the Europeans would not have been interested, largely because of the public procurements market, the services sector, which is largely regulated by the provinces.

The provinces found their interest in access to the European market, but also in the interest of opening up the public markets. Why? It's because that's good for competition, and ultimately competition is good for the taxpayers we all are. We had a royal commission recently on things that were not competitive in construction, and realized we that maybe we'd paid a few billion dollars in the past 20 years that we should not have paid as taxpayers because competition was inadequate.

Second, the provinces really worked well together. There were more than 220 meetings or conference calls between the provinces and federal officials or among the provinces themselves with the Europeans. Each chief negotiator of the different provinces was able to speak with the European negotiators to explain how, for instance, we have a monopoly for distributing alcohol in all provinces except Alberta, which is somewhat of a mystery to many Europeans, especially in the country where I am now, France. We had an occasion to explain how provincial legislation worked, and that was very useful in the conduct of negotiation.

At the end, we were insistent that in terms of circulation of goods, this should not be only about tariffs, but it also should be clear on rules of origin to be sure that more Canadian products would qualify, and better qualify with certainty, and finally that we should have certification for our goods. Certification means that if you want to go on the market with an iPhone, you have to demonstrate the iPhone won't be detrimental to health, to security, or to the environment, and we have the possibility not to harmonize our rules between Europe and Canada, but to be able to give to a manufacturer the possibility to go to a laboratory in Canada and get EU certification according to their cahier des charges, and the same for Europeans, who will be able to apply for Canadian certification in European laboratories. Especially for smaller companies, that should should ease the burden—

12:10 p.m.

A voice

Your G2J conference is about to end.

12:10 p.m.

Chief Negotiator of the Government of Québec for the Canada-European Union Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA) and Counsel, Lavery, de Billy, As an Individual

Pierre Marc Johnson

I'm sorry; I'm going.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fonseca Liberal Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

The voice of God came in.

12:10 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fonseca Liberal Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

That's right.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you very much, Mr. Johnson.

12:10 p.m.

Chief Negotiator of the Government of Québec for the Canada-European Union Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA) and Counsel, Lavery, de Billy, As an Individual

Pierre Marc Johnson

I thank you, Chair.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you for being with us.

Do we still have the other three witnesses?

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fonseca Liberal Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

Mr. Chair, I'm allowed to—

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Hold it. You have time. We're in suspension. We're not suspended, they're just going to....

We'll let Mr. Johnson leave.

You have about half a minute left. Mr. Fonseca, are you good to go?

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fonseca Liberal Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

Yes.

This is open to any of the other three witnesses.

We've talked a lot about our European diaspora communities here. How well do you think that will serve us in this agreement, having such large communities descended from Europeans here in Canada?

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

It has to be a very short answer.

12:10 p.m.

Executive Director, Canada Europe Round Table for Business

Jason Langrish

Maybe I'll take a quick stab at that.

Both my in-laws are Polish, and it doesn't hurt, but it's not the primary driver of business.

I think maybe the first wave of migration from a country to come over will maintain strong links to the old country, as they say, but a lot of the immigration from Europe is now into its second or third generation. I think they're just looking for business opportunities, to be honest.

There will be some familiarity with the languages and customs in the various EU member states. They will be familiar with that, making it easier for them to import and to trade and so on, maybe set up business operations, but by and large, the primary driver will be the business opportunity that exists in the European Union, and it won't necessarily be cultural.