International Trade Committee on Feb. 16th, 2017

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

I would say, first of all, they're not really workshops. Second of all, the whole-of-government approach that we're taking, and why it has taken us a year to put this into place, is that departments are actually communicating and speaking with each other. It's not just about Innovation, Science and Economic Development. We're working closely with Global Affairs Canada and so forth. This is not a situation of the same program, new name. We've learned that has not worked well in the past. This is about listening to what SMEs are saying, listening to entrepreneurs and business leaders, and saying, what can we change to make it more available?

I'll tell you one other point. When it comes to the program of CanExport, if there is a nuance or something that's stopping you from being successful, there are people you can speak to to help you be successful in applying for that program. It's having the outcome that not only they want but that this government and Canadians need them to want, so that they can create the growth successfully.

We're not here to put roadblocks in front of them. We're saying, how do we help ease and have your success? At the end of the day, when our small businesses succeed, Canadians and the Government of Canada succeed. That's what it's about.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, Minister.

We're going to move over to the Liberals.

Mr. Dhaliwal, go ahead.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Minister, I would like to first thank you for being here on very short notice.

You mentioned that 90% of the businesses are SMEs. It's the same too in British Columbia and my riding of Surrey—Newton.

You mentioned your mandate is to educate and support. My question to you is this. What is being done in terms of promotion to ensure that all small and medium-sized businesses across Canada are fully aware of the new opportunities in front of them?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

That's an excellent question and I want to take a moment to let all members know that this conversation today might be the first time I am in front of you, but I am here, just as you are, to serve Canadians in the best interests of success, and our conversations can continue. Whether by email or through a conversation, my team and I are here to work with you, because when we work together, we will achieve success.

Something we've heard time and time again is that when it comes to the government programs and services available to them, the people who need those programs don't know how to find out about them. Something I have taken on is to ensure that members of Parliament are better informed so that they can inform their constituents.

We also want to ensure that members of Parliament can work with enterprise centres within their communities, work with the RDAs, and work with whoever needs or is that service point of contact. We know the Canada Business Network, which has been around for a while, is a single portal and we know it works well. We are helping to champion and advance and encourage more SMEs, more entrepreneurs, to go to that website to get the information they need, whether it's about starting a business or growing a business or considering export markets. We are trying to touch more Canadians and have more of those conversations as well as using members of Parliament on all sides of the House to help us in that initiative.

When it comes to the trade commissioner service, we want our small businesses to consider export markets. The trade commissioner service is something that small businesses and tourism use, working closely with Global Affairs Canada, to ensure that SMEs are able to succeed when they are in those international markets. That's why CanExport increased the eligible dollar amount, so that they could actually make it to those markets to see if they would find success there.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

You mentioned that only 12% of companies export, so that means 88% of companies have not taken advantage of this. Is it still on your radar to help those businesses that have not ventured into exporting before? How will your department be able to make sure those numbers go beyond 50%?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Thank you. That's a great question.

We are working with the people who are in the system and who know how government operates, and we will continue to work collaboratively with them, because, once again, their success is our success.

At any round table I have had and every single time the team or I travel, we ensure that at least half of the people at that table have not been invited by government before so that we can open up those opportunities for Canadians.

Even when it comes to the international trade and investment strategy, which aims to increase the number of exporters, there's a robust communications strategy, but most importantly, we are at that table and we are part of that conversation. Before they can make a decision, our voice and the voice of our stakeholders is being represented every single step of the way. We will not be an afterthought. We'll be part of the plan to help them succeed.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Madam Minister, you mentioned your stakeholders—

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Our stakeholders.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

What are the mechanisms that are in place if those stakeholders want to provide their feedback to the government so that any wrinkles or obstacles in the way can be tackled by you and your officials.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

When it comes to the trade commissioner service, we know that it can do more. Just as the Right Hon. Justin Trudeau has said time and time again, we can do better. We will continue to strive to raise the bar and to provide those opportunities.

The trade commissioner service has offices across the country, in Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Montreal, and Halifax. There are 161 offices in total, so when we are communicating with them, we're making sure that SMEs are a priority. We're providing them with constructive feedback as to how they can better serve the people we want to see succeed, which at the end of the day are all Canadians.

When small businesses represent 90% of the private sector workforce, they represent the views of the customers and of the entrepreneurs. They are the people who create the jobs and growth. We will continue to collaborate through a two-way dialogue with clients as well as with the services to ensure that they can get the response they need. Basically, we are collecting feedback. This was part of the one year. We realize there are gaps in communications, and that's part of why, for the high-growth, high-impact firms, the AGS has seen so much success.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, Minister.

I'd like to welcome the member for Courtenay—Alberni. Mr. Johns, welcome to our committee.

Right now, we're going to turn to the NDP.

You're splitting your time, Ms. Ramsey. Go ahead.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Minister, for being here today with your team.

My riding is Essex, in southwestern Ontario, on the border with the U.S. I am hearing from business owners about the high cost of doing business. The hydro costs are out of control, and businesses are looking at leaving to go to the U.S. Greenhouses are heading over the border because they can't afford the hydro costs, and they're saying they are going to lose out to competition.

A reduction in the small business tax rate would be the best thing right now to help them with their overall costs, so I have to ask about that broken promise. That was something we all committed to, on all sides, during the campaign. I think it's incredibly vital, especially in Ontario, to deal with the hydro costs.

Will the 2017 federal budget include a reduction in the small business tax rate?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

I have to take just a minute, because I've been working closely with Minister Freeland, and I'm sure, MP Ramsey, we'll be working closely with Minister Champagne as well. I'd said this to you earlier, but let me state for the record that it's really nice to see that people are fighting for the people who we need to fight for. I appreciate your constructive feedback and I appreciate your being a part of the solution.

When it comes to the consultations and communications we've had with SMEs, and I'm talking about the people who are in the pipeline, and approaching new people, they want conditions for success. They want programs and services not to be shelved, and for government to say these exist. They want to be successful in their applications so they can have the outcomes we need them to have.

The small business tax rate does not give the return we believe it does. It's a great sound bite, it's a great headline, but at the end of the day, when you talk about dollars and cents, it does not achieve it.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

That's not what they're telling me, though. In my riding, when I'm out there and speaking to them, it's not what they're calling and asking for. They're asking for the rate to be cut.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

I would welcome the opportunity for us to continue to communicate together, as well as to have them communicate with my office and our team, so that we can see that success. We want that feedback. We work closely to ensure that we are creating those conditions for success. We know that government does not create the growth, but we can create the conditions for growth. We can create those opportunities.

That's partly why, and I know this is going to seem like a point.... When it comes to lowering the middle-class tax rate, it actually impacts every Canadian of the middle class. Those are our business owners, those are our customers, and so forth—

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Okay, but you made two promises....

I'm just going to jump in here.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

You're welcome.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

You talked about consulting businesses. The Canadian Federation of Independent Business has over 109,000 members. They rank it number one, lowering small business taxes. It was a promise made by this government. The government hasn't honoured the promise.

I knocked on the doors of over 300 businesses in my riding, with over 70 volunteers, and it was number one in my riding too. I just want you to take note of that.

Another significant cost of doing business is, of course, credit card merchant fees. It's an issue that the NDP has been raising for years. There are some clear, concrete actions the government can take to help lower these costs and make them more predictable. Of course, our colleague Madame Lapointe has Bill C-236 on this issue. I think it's been moved 10 times. Hopefully the House will eventually debate this. With CETA coming on board, we know that some of our counterparts in Europe have rates as low as a fifth of what we have here in Canada.

I'm wondering what action the government is prepared to take on credit card merchant fees.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

This is a conversation we've been having. What's refreshing about this government is that we are taking the whole-of-government approach. When it comes to the Minister of Finance and the Department of Finance, we are communicating with them and engaging with them on a regular basis. When the 22 departments that are directly related, I would say, to SMEs come together on a regular basis, and we're talking about a weekly meeting, they are able to raise these issues.

We consult with many groups. I've met with the CFIB. I've met with chambers of commerce. I've met with these groups to ensure that their stakeholder voices are being represented. We also continue to engage with them.

As you yourself know, instead of calling you a critic I call you an ambassador, because at the end of the day, we want the same outcomes and we want to see that success. When it comes to CETA, the opportunities that SMEs will see in export markets with this deal will be immeasurable, I would say. We know that CETA will open up markets unlike any other.

I will tell you that when we know that only 12% of SMEs are considering exporting right now, we need to encourage more SMEs, if they want to, to consider export markets.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

If that's the case, we need to make sure that everybody is on an even playing field. If they are getting lower merchant fees, we're not on the same playing field.

I also want to make sure you understand that when we talk about small business taxes, and you talked about the middle-class tax break, there is no better way to have community economic development than by putting dollars into the hands of small business owners. Some of the rhetoric we've heard from government—

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Sorry, Mr. Johns, I don't want to cut you off, but your time is up.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

It's all right. She got the message.

[The Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

We'll now move over to Madame Lapointe, a business person.

Go ahead, please. You have the floor.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank Minister Chagger and her team for being here today.

I also want to thank my colleague for paying special attention to the bill I'm presenting.

That said, I'll speak instead about exports, given that we're the Standing Committee on International Trade and we deal with small and medium-sized businesses. You said earlier that your goal was to help high-growth SMEs become more productive, innovative and export oriented. You have trade commissioners and you talk to foreign buyers.

How do you pass on this information to SMEs, so that they're aware of all the export opportunities related to the new free trade agreements we've signed, such as CETA?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Thank you for your question, Ms. Lapointe. I speak some French, but to save time, I'll switch to English.

When it comes to our negotiations for international trade, SMEs are being represented in that portfolio. You'll recognize that when we are talking about our small and medium-sized enterprises, it is not just the minister or one team that is responding. Every single minister recognizes this.

When the agriculture minister stands up and is talking about farmers, he knows that those are small business owners. When we have the environment minister stand up and talk about the importance of having a price on pollution, she knows that we're talking directly about small business owners. When we're talking about the importance of clean tech and being more innovative and export oriented, we know who is going to create those opportunities. It's going to be small business owners. They are at the forefront.

When it comes to the negotiations, whether that's with the United States or it's CETA and so forth, we will always have a voice. That's partly why the Prime Minister recognized the importance of having this women's entrepreneurship council. We want to also encourage under-represented groups to be part of those conversations.