Evidence of meeting #67 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nafta.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director, Government and International Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Yes. A U.S. grade can only be applied by a U.S. grader who is an employee of the U.S. Department of Agriculture. The Canadian packing companies would be glad to pay to have U.S. graders here in Canada, very much as there is U.S. Customs pre-clearance at Canadian airports. They'd have to pay for that service and they'd be glad to pay for it.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
That is a good solution.
You talked about rules on either side of the border and said that you have had discussions with your counterparts.
Do the Mexicans and the Americans want customs clearance to be easy, with no rules?
Director, Government and International Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Yes. On these issues that we've outlined we've talked extensively with our U.S. counterparts, and we're all on the same page with these.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
We talked earlier about borders, but when it comes to animal health, food safety and risk assessments based on scientific criteria, are the same harmonization rules between the United States, Mexico and Canada applied?
Gary Stordy Public Relations Manager, Canadian Pork Council
Actually, that has been one of the successes of NAFTA. It has basically been encouraging governments to align some of their regulations and processes over the past several years. This is one of the dangers if NAFTA is essentially dismantled or if we come to have an agreement with the U.S., and the U.S. has an agreement with Mexico, or Canada has an agreement with Mexico, separately. It's the co-operative working relationship to align regulatory bodies to encourage the trade among the three countries.
Moving forward, we talk about an integrated market in the pork sector. Because of NAFTA we've been successful, both in terms of our exporting pork to our two NAFTA partners, and their exporting pork products that we need here. It's that co-operative working relationship that is helpful, and NAFTA encourages and supports that part.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
From what I understand, the harmonization rules are working well, except in the case of customs.
We have studied the Trans-Pacific Partnership and the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, or CETA.
If the NAFTA negotiations were resumed, would you like certain elements of CETA to be included in a future agreement?
President, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance
Maybe I can start.
When we think about what we achieved in the trans-Pacific partnership among 12 ambitious like-minded countries that were looking to make trade easier in the Asia-Pacific region, we saw some major advances made in that agreement on things such as sanitary and phytosanitary measures, which include food and feed safety and things around plant health that are so critical for the trade of agricultural products.
If your question is what are some of the things we could include in a modernized NAFTA, certainly some of the provisions on sanitary and phytosanitary measures are much more ambitious and would serve our sectors better than what we have on the books right now.
To give you an example, just as in 1993 there was no ban on trans fats, there was no biotechnology in agriculture. The trans-Pacific partnership included provisions on biotechnology, recognizing that plant biotechnology should not be a barrier to trade and that transparency and openness in regulation are extremely important to enable trade to happen among members of that agreement. We have, then, an opportunity to align our approaches in regulating those products.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking
Madame Lapointe, you're always on time.
We're finished that round and we're going to go to the second round.
We're going to start with the Liberals.
Madam Ludwig, you have the floor.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
Thank you.
It's nice to see you guys again. Thank you for joining us.
I'm going to start with Mr. Kristensen, because I have to give you my bias. I'm the MP for New Brunswick Southwest, so I'm wondering whether you could help us envision the route you would take, going from New Canaan into the States. I'm assuming that you're trucking your....
Director, Board of Directors, Canadian Pork Council
I have a lot of experience dealing with the United States. For the period 2005 to 2016 we exported animals into the U.S. and raised them ourselves on contract facilities in Indiana and Ohio. I have thus been on both sides of the border as a producer and have also been both an exporter of live hogs into the U.S. and an importer of live hogs from Canada into the United States.
Also, our production today in New Brunswick is predominantly feeder pig, SEW production. That is all shipped and finished now in Quebec through the F. Ménard system. They in turn export a lot of the finished product into the United States.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
Okay. Thank you.
The next question I have is about backhauling. If you're shipping livestock, for example, from New Brunswick to Quebec and then the Quebec producer is exporting it directly to the United States, are the trucks coming back empty or are they working on another contract to import something else back into Canada?
Director, Board of Directors, Canadian Pork Council
I can only speak for our own organization, but our organization was very strict on biosecurity and we did no backhauling of any type whatsoever.We were completely, 100%, our own transportation, our own biosecurity, and our trucks only transported our product one way.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
Okay. Thank you.
This is for all of you, actually.
Earlier this week I attended the Can/Am Trade Border Alliance conference. Obviously the issue of border security was a common theme, but everyone was on the same page. It wasn't to thicken the border or thin the border; it was about a smarter, more efficient border.
One theme that constantly came up was the issue of pre-clearance and why we can't have pre-clearance here in Canada. They used the example, Mr. Kristensen, not of pork but just a better...that has to be sometimes double-, sometimes quadruple-checked when it gets down there, and the time frame in which that takes place.
I will also say that I am very pleased to hear about the great successes with NAFTA and that we can be a launching ground for a new negotiation, because I believe it's one of the true values of our North American relationship.
I'll start with Mr. Innes. In terms of a more integrated North American supply chain, how can we be better integrated and maybe work together, between the CBSA and the CBP, the U.S. border patrol?
President, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance
Thank you for the question.
When we look at the trade in agricultural goods back and forth, one of the major regulatory agencies overseeing us is the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, on both food and feed safety on the grain side, and certainly on the meat side. There are other agencies involved on the animal health side and in regulating meat health safety as well. When we look at the opportunities you describe to make the border more seamless, it really is about recognizing that we're both achieving the same thing with our systems and about not requiring inspections or testing times two. All of the work that goes into meeting regulatory requirements is essentially doubled because you have two systems.
It's thinking about how to recognize each other's systems, as has been recently undertaken by the Regulatory Cooperation Council in looking at food safety, for example. That still isn't fully implemented. We say we don't necessarily need to do everything twice, but let's recognize each other's systems and then avoid double-testing, double-inspecting, double-certifying.
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
All right.
I have a question for Mr. Darling.
Mr. Darling, concerning the work you're doing and the communication you're having with your American colleagues, while I know that from our end what we often look at is how many jobs would be impacted here, what would it mean to a local economy? At the level you're working with or that all your associations are working with in the United States, are your counterparts discussing this with their local Congress member in their areas?
President, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Yes, for sure that's what they're doing. Just as when COOL was in play, they're basically telling their state representatives what's at risk. What is at risk is jobs and trade. What's frustrating for us, if you look at the U.S. economy, is that it's very dependent on trade, and it doesn't make sense to make things harder. So that's a message that you're—
Liberal
Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB
Do average Americans realize how dependent their economy is on trade with Canada?
President, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
They probably do not, and that's the issue. The Trump administration seems to be getting across that trade that is equal is not good for them because they're losing jobs, but I don't know how you have worthwhile trade that is not equal. Yes, absolutely that's the problem. They have to get that message across, and I think many of our counterparts are trying to get that message across not only to their producers but to the public as well.
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking
Thank you. We're going to move over to the Conservatives.
For five minutes, Mr. Hoback, you have the floor.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you all for being here. I think it's great that you guys are working with your colleagues across the line, because two weeks ago, when there was this talk of pulling out of NAFTA, I understand that Sonny Perdue went over to the White House and did a lot of talking. That's probably why they didn't pull out of NAFTA. It's because of the ag sector and what it meant to them.
I'll use the example of corn out of the U.S. not going to Mexico. That's huge. It's a big problem if they don't have that market. I think that having Mr. Perdue there will help them understand just how important the ag sector is to them and will hopefully make them understand what NAFTA means to them and keep NAFTA renegotiated as a three-country agreement.
I'm rather curious, though. You're down there quite a bit. We had the TPP sitting there. It's ready to be signed, we've gone through the committee, and I'm waiting for legislation to come forward saying that we're going to ratify this and move it forward. I'm not sure when that's going to happen.
But then I also see the current government talking about going into China and holding a new type of trade talks with China. I don't necessarily have a problem with that; I'm just looking at the relationship with the U.S. at this point in time and how anti-China the U.S. versus what we're doing with China. I'm curious why we wouldn't sign the TPP and have access to Japan and the Asia market and get the rules in place. The concern I have is that if we start pushing too hard with China we're actually going to do more harm than good to our relationship with the U.S.
Are you hearing any of that when you're down there? Do you have any comments on that?
President, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
No, we're not hearing anything other than that the U.S. doesn't like to be the last one in any deal, and it bothers the Americans when Canada or some other country is going forward on potential deals with other countries. China is a difficult country, I think I'm politically correct in saying, to do any deal with. But no, we're not hearing a whole lot from them.
As I mentioned before, I know our U.S. counterparts would really like Canada to finalize the TPP. That would send the message, and then we wouldn't have to have all these sideline conversations. I think we would be in favour of that as well.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
You'd be in favour of seeing that done, putting the priority there, and—