Even during the negotiations on the free trade agreement, as an example, there are certain things that ministers can say to ministers, because they're diplomats, and there are certain things that they cannot say. We, as the Canada-Ukraine Chamber of Commerce, can always pose questions from our members directly to the minister.
In this case we understood very well, for example, that things that Ukraine was trying to negotiate from Canada in dairy and eggs and the supply management chain area were just impossible to do. We spent a lot of time with the Ukrainian side, with the Ukrainian minister and his support, to explain to him not to waste his time in this area, because it would be very difficult to achieve something, and perhaps he might want to think about something else that he might want to ask for in exchange for that.
These are the kinds of things that you can discuss openly with the other side, as an example.