International Trade Committee on Feb. 1st, 2021

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

It's for Mr. Verheul. What are our options to retaliate? Is this legal? Also, what are our options to enforce what we have in place right now with our contracts?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

I think the answer to this is that I have received repeated assurances from my colleagues—

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

I was asking Mr. Verheul.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

I think that as the minister I get to answer the question.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

I was looking for a bureaucratic answer with certain detail, not a ministerial answer. No offence, but I just know that with Steve's extensive knowledge on this file, he could probably give us a good lay of the land on what our options are.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

We haven't heard from any of our officials to date. Does one of the officials want to answer Mr. Hoback's question, please?

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I have a quick point of order, Madam Chair. It's not that I'm against hearing the answer, but time spent here is time that comes off the back end, where other members may yet have an opportunity to ask questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

All right. Thank you for the point, Mr. Blaikie.

Mr. Hoback, I attempted to—

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

You got your seven minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Let's see if we can't manage that again.

Mr. Sarai.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Minister Ng. I appreciate all your work on this.

I want to know this. We've signed CETA, and we have an investment court system, I believe, that resolves issues or potential issues that could come about. We probably had protective measures on particular incidents like this within CETA when we signed it. Do you think we are protected under CETA against any measures if in fact the European Union decides to do anything counter to the assurances they've given you?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

CETA is a robust and good agreement that is good for Canadian exporters. Perhaps on that somewhat technical question, I'm going to send it to my officials, who can provide a bit of a response.

[John Hannaford, Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Thanks, Minister.

I think we'll turn to Steve, given that he is the former negotiator.

[Steve Verheul, Chief Negotiator and Assistant Deputy Minister, Trade Policy and Negotiations, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Thank you, and good morning, everyone.

Yes, certainly we do have provisions in CETA that do specify that export restrictions are illegal. However, there are exceptions to that: in particular, if the export restrictions are applied on a temporary basis, if they're to prevent a critical shortage and if they relate to essential supplies. On those particular measures, the EU is probably on solid ground.

What we're looking at more closely is the application of the measure by the EU and, in particular, looking at the exemptions they've provided to certain countries. In that respect, we're looking to see whether there is a discriminatory approach being taken by the EU, and we're seeking assurances from the EU on that issue. We're also expecting that they will notify this measure to the WTO and explain how they feel it is consistent with their obligations under the WTO, as well as under CETA.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

I'll go further, Mr. Verheul.

Not to give our strategy away, but has Canada prepared a strategy if it comes to that, such that we would have a countervailing or punitive strategy against any member that would try to restrict their commitments to Canada, similar to what we did with the USMCA or prior to that? When some unfair steel tariffs were given, we hit back at the U.S.

I'm assuming that Canada has a strategy and is prepared to use something like that.

[Steve Verheul]

We're certainly doing a full spectrum of analysis of potential options that we may have to look at, but at this point, our primary objective is making sure that we get the vaccine deliveries, so we're waiting to see whether the EU process is going to pose any interruptions or not. We're certainly prepared, such that if this process does start to create problems, we will have steps we can take in light of that.

At this point, we're still under the expectation that the assurances provided to us by the EU will be upheld, and until we get some evidence that it's not going to happen, we're not really in a position to pursue those other measures.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Minister Ng, I want to thank you for fighting for Canadians' interests and fighting to make sure we have those assurances and that they continue going forward.

In the long term, is Canada looking at a strategy in future talks—this may not be imminent right now—to protect against some of these protective measures or strategies that countries are starting to get into where they're hoarding or not obliging on their commitments?

Going forward, this could have repercussions to them as well, obviously, on valuable pharmaceuticals that go to them or other trade imports that they do. Is Canada looking at a dialogue with other member states about safe, fair and honoured trade systems being respected going forward?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

This is exactly the work that the Ottawa Group has been doing on WTO reform. We've been very clear that this global crisis should not be an excuse to turn inwards, to stop trading or to levy protectionist measures. It's precisely why both the European Union and Canada, through our leadership, have put forward the trade and health initiative. It was launched in June of 2020 through the Ottawa Group ministerial. The Ottawa Group ministers have endorsed such a plan to engage the WTO membership. It was put forward to the general council in December.

Our officials around that table are now looking to identify specific actions related to export restrictions, trade facilitation, technical regulations, tariffs and transparency. This is precisely the work that Canada has always been doing, even before COVID-19. Certainly, COVID-19 has demonstrated the importance of this work.

We are continuing to pursue this work, not only with Ottawa Group members but with the larger group of WTO members, so that there are measures and rules that we can all work at to prevent the types of restrictive measures that we have been seeing around the world. Suffice it to say that this is important. I'm very pleased with the work that we have been leading on this front to ensure supply chains and predictability—particularly for essential goods and medicines to continue to flow freely across borders.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you, Minister.

We'll go on to Mr. Aboultaif.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I would like a point of order here.

Could we go 15 to 20 minutes longer to fulfill the delays we've had so far, between preparation and other stuff?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

There's a couple of things. First, our normal time would be up at one o'clock, but we did get started a bit late. The motion that was adopted by committee does indicate two hours. That's all subject to everybody's scheduling, though. It doesn't mean that everybody is necessarily available. Hopefully, they would be.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

I appreciate the suggestion of the member from Alberta. In fact, I have scheduled meetings starting right at 10 o'clock PST and one o'clock eastern time, so I would not be able to stay here. I would request the minister finish this off while we can, and by one o'clock.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

I would make the request again. I know Mr. Dhaliwal might have other arrangements, but I think it would be important for this very important discussion today since we have the minister.

We're thankful for her response coming back quickly on Monday morning to be able to be with us today. I think it will be great to get the full benefit of having the minister here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I will make a suggestion to the committee. The minister has been here answering all of the questions until now. We now have the benefit of actually having officials as well. Is it possible that the minister could leave and we continue with the officials? Is that something that the committee would be all right with?

I'll throw it out there as a thought.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

We would like to have another round, actually, if that's okay.