Evidence of meeting #17 for International Trade in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
2 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Andexser, I'm just wondering if you'd like to take a minute to explain what some of the economic benefits to Canada would be of resolving the issue for U.K. pensioners living in Canada.
2 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Alliance of British Pensioners
Certainly, thank you for the question.
Currently, because of the policy, the fact that there are no pensions being indexed here, we all have to pay taxes in Canada.
With the 136,000 people who have been denied their rightful pension, it means that our incomes are obviously reduced and, therefore, we're not paying the taxes in Canada. This ultimately leaves some people in a situation where they're struggling to survive, and Canada is forced, through offering welfare and GIS supplements, to bail these people out.
The onus for supporting pensioners should not fall on the backs of Canadians. It should be the responsibility of Great Britain, and if this policy was to end, it's estimated it would save close to a half billion dollars to the Canadian economy every year. Pensioners tend to be spenders rather than savers, and it would just stimulate the economy.
2 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Thank you very much for that testimony.
Mr. Sawyer, I know we've heard many times at this committee already, and this Parliament, some of the long-standing complaints of cattle producers with respect to access to the European market. We know that our trade deficit with our European trading partners has increased since CETA came into effect.
I know that you continue to be an ardent supporter of CETA, this transitional agreement, and having a new agreement. I'm just wondering, what kind of empirical evidence might cause you to express dissatisfaction and opposition to a free trade deal?
2 p.m.
Co-Chair, International Trade Committee, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
It would be that it starts going in the wrong direction. Obviously we would not be supportive of a trade deal that would do us harm.
We're very supportive of the opportunities that are presented here. In this particular deal, and the direction we're talking about—working with friendly allies and some understanding because we too have worked closely with our governments, our trade negotiators, our industry, as well as working over there and with them—I see nothing on the horizon that in my view should throw a monkey wrench into it. We're trying to get improvements—better stuff.
2:05 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Not being able to meet your export quotas and having increased competition in the domestic market from our trading partners, then, doesn't do harm to your industry, in your opinion.
2:05 p.m.
Co-Chair, International Trade Committee, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
It certainly does do harm, and that's why we're looking forward to the opportunities we can achieve here. The status quo is not acceptable with the non-tariff trade barriers. Certainly I think we have an opportunity to progress through them, but definitely we've been harmed with these non-tariff trade barriers, as we've seen through many years.
The numbers I was putting out there.... We went from a half a million dollars' difference to—what was it?—$98 million. That's huge. That's damaging to our industry and damaging to the economy here.
2:05 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Despite the harm done, you're not prepared to say that you don't support the agreement. Even if the agreement is one that has been doing harm to your industry, it's one that you continue to support anyway.
One day I may be able to square that circle. We've heard similar testimony from the Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters: that we are getting paper access to markets, but when you look at the numbers, it is not producing for Canadian manufacturers, who still struggle to realize the opportunity of those markets.
What kind of empirical economic evidence might cause you to think that a free trade deal is not in the best interests of Canada, that it's not working out and that we should go back to the drawing board to figure out different kinds of agreements or a different approach to structuring our economic activity—or is there none?
February 26th, 2021 / 2:05 p.m.
Director, International and Government Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
If I may jump in—
2:05 p.m.
Co-Chair, International Trade Committee, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Thanks, Fawn. I was going to pass it to you, because I'm not getting the answer right.
2:05 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
I'd like to go to Mr. Poirier, because I only have a minute and change remaining.
2:05 p.m.
Director, Trade Policy, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters
The way we approach it, manufacturers are free traders. We're one of the industries that don't have any similar protections. We have been free traders for decades now, and our sector has adapted accordingly.
2:05 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
That has corresponded with a significant decline in the Canadian manufacturing industry. Is that not true?
2:05 p.m.
Director, Trade Policy, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters
Yes, but they're not necessarily associated. With NAFTA, the value of what we produce is infinitely bigger than what it could ever have been. Canada's market is simply too small to have a domestic, non-trading manufacturing market. We need to have access to global markets.
2:05 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
To be fair, I don't think anybody's talking about not having any trade. The choice isn't between the kinds of free trade deals that Canada has in fact been signing over the last 30 years and not trading with the world. Canada traded with the world prior to these kinds of free trade agreements and would have continued to trade with the world in their absence. These agreements aren't about whether we trade or not. They're about the terms of trade.
Is there any empirical economic evidence that would convince you that these kinds of agreements aren't working well for the Canadian economy? If so, what kind of evidence is it?
2:05 p.m.
Director, Trade Policy, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters
I would view it more as whether we are trading with like partners around the globe. Are our economies similar? Do we have similar legal structures? As long as all those elements are in place, we can do business. You start to run into trouble when you're looking at making trade deals with countries that are not similar to us in those respects.
With the U.K., we have the same head of state, so we don't have those issues whatsoever.
2:05 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
In that case, then, there's no economic evidence that would convince you that a trade deal isn't working out for Canada with the U.K., regardless of its content. Because we have similar legal structures, there would be no reason to think that the deal was poorly structured.
Am I hearing you right?
2:05 p.m.
Director, Trade Policy, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters
Yes. Never say never, but we don't foresee any of those types of economic problems. We're a good match, which is why we have a trade agreement with them now anyway.
2:05 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
You don't think we could be significantly out-competed, despite some of the evidence coming out of your industry and your earlier testimony—
2:05 p.m.
Director, Trade Policy, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters
No, not if we address....
2:05 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
—about us not being able to realize the opportunities of the agreement.
2:05 p.m.
Director, Trade Policy, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters
No, I think we're trying to maximize a good thing already. That's what I'm here to talk about. We do have some big challenges, but they're not insurmountable. It's more to draw the attention internally, here, within Canada, to start to get serious about addressing those business challenges.
2:05 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Then trouble with outcomes couldn't mean anything but that Canada should promote its exports more. In your opinion, there couldn't ever be a problem with the structure of the agreement as long as we have a similar legal framework as the other country.
