International Trade Committee on Oct. 30th, 2020

[Christopher Thornley]

I apologize, Mr. Savard-Tremblay.

Is that better?

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I am not the one to ask. You need to ask the interpreters whether it is okay with them.

[Christopher Thornley]

Yes, I understand. I will try to do better.

I apologize if my voice isn't loud enough for the interpreters, but I'll certainly do my best.

We've had many companies take advantage of the program, even though they are not allowed to travel, whether it be through e-commerce platforms, through expert advice or through learning how to do international business development in a virtual manner.

I'd like to give an example. Minister Ng met recently with a company that is in Labrador, in the province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and has pivoted very effectively to a virtual platform and used some of the assets that we are able to provide for that.

I'd also like to mention quickly, if I may, that our trade commissioners in Canada—over 130 of them across the country—are working virtually with Canadian companies to support them in their efforts to work internationally. We continue to do virtual outcalls with them while we're restricted from meeting in person, and, as was mentioned, to support them not only in virtual trade missions but also by introducing them virtually to our trade offices around the world.

Thank you very much.

We're also looking at other measures that will allow these companies to be even more effective in an online manner.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We go now to Mr. Blaikie.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Hello, and welcome to our witnesses.

Earlier in her testimony, Ms. Hembroff mentioned that Canada is currently negotiating a number of different trade agreements. I would ask her, through you, Madam Chair, if she could table with the committee a list of the agreements that Canada is currently negotiating, the countries involved in those negotiations, the types of agreements that Canada is seeking at those tables, the date of the first meeting for each round of negotiation and the most recent meeting for each agreement as well.

I'm seeing a yes, but I'm not hearing a yes, for the record.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Ms. Wilshaw or Mr. Thornley, could you respond to Mr. Blaikie?

[Sara Wilshaw]

I think the question was directed at Ms. Hembroff, and I saw her nodding, but certainly, we will make sure that you receive that information.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you very much.

I noted also that earlier in her testimony, Ms. Hembroff was talking about attempts to keep international supply chains open with respect to medical devices and equipment, but I also know that the government has made efforts to develop domestic supply chains for equipment that we need. I note that in a number of trade agreements to which Canada is a party, there are investor-state dispute settlement clauses.

I'm wondering if the department has done any kind of impact assessment or analysis of Canada's legal and financial exposure under the ISDS provisions of existing trade agreements, and if Ms. Hembroff can speak to those.

[Kendal Hembroff]

Maybe I can just confirm, while I have the floor, that, yes, we would be happy to provide the committee with a list of all the international trade negotiations in which Canada is engaged, with all of the relevant facts and information about the first round of negotiations as well as the most recent.

With respect to the question the member has posed regarding ISDS and its potential implications in terms of some of the measures that Canada is undertaking domestically, I'm not aware of any formal analysis that has been conducted in terms of initiatives for trade and health. Of course, when federal departments, as well as provinces and territories, are considering domestic measures, we typically undertake an assessment from the perspective of our international trade obligations to make sure that what is being considered is fully consistent.

I will need to check to see whether anything has been done specifically in the area the member has raised. Is there a particular measure on which you are seeking to know whether an assessment has been conducted?

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I'm just curious to know whether or not there have been analyses conducted with respect to any of the investor-state dispute settlement clauses in agreements to which Canada is a party. I'm thinking particularly, in this context, of efforts to ensure that we can produce and supply medical PPE, but also other types of medical equipment that have been relevant to the pandemic. I'm thinking also about ventilators, for instance, or anything that would fall under that umbrella of goods that are required in order to meet the demands of the pandemic. I'm quite glad that Canadian companies have stepped up in order to fill that need, but I am concerned that companies from outside of Canada that are operating out of countries that are party to some of these agreements with Canada may eventually look on that unfavourably and seek damages under our current trade laws.

I'm curious to know what the government knows about that and what work has been done in order to understand what those risk factors are and whether or not, in the opinion of the government, there is a real risk. I'd also like to know if there's a contingency plan or if there's been any effort to engage our partners under those agreements to talk about temporarily suspending ISDS provisions. I know there are certainly a lot of Canadians who have engaged in a letter-writing campaign to ask that parties at the very least temporarily suspend ISDS provisions during the pandemic so that there's no fear that public policy might not go down the road of ensuring that we have a reliable domestic supply of the things we need at this time because of concerns about provisions of international trade agreements.

I'm just trying to give you as much context as possible. Whatever conversations have happened within the department and whatever analysis has taken place that you can share with the committee, I would love for you to share, perhaps in writing once you've had the opportunity to do that.

Could I ask that you commit to getting back to the committee in writing with whatever you think is pertinent to this general theme?

[Kendal Hembroff]

Chair, if you're in agreement, I'd be more than happy to have the department get back to the committee on this issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

That's terrific. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Blaikie.

We go now to Mrs. Gray for five minutes.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to congratulate you, Ms. Wilshaw, on your appointment. I look forward to working with you.

I have a question. Prior to COVID-19 being declared a pandemic, what percentage of Canadian trade commissioners were posted abroad?

[Sara Wilshaw]

We are roughly one thousand abroad. There are about one thousand trade commissioners overseas. That includes locally engaged and Canada-based, which means that they are Canadian diplomats posted overseas. We also have a large number of locally engaged officers who are citizens or local residents of the countries around the world. We then have approximately 400 in Canada, all across Canada in every province and territory, including some here in Ottawa as well. One thousand out of 1,400 means that roughly two-thirds are posted abroad.

Duane McMullen is here with us, and he is the director general of TCS operations. I don't know if Duane has more precision to offer.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you for that. I was wondering if it's different now than it was pre-pandemic. Have the numbers changed?

[Sara Wilshaw]

I think I mentioned, Madam Chair, that some of our trade commissioners were evacuated for health and safety reasons earlier in the pandemic. Most of them have, in fact, returned to their posts, where that has been possible. I can get back to the committee with precise numbers for those who remain unable to return to their posts, but the vast majority have returned.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

That's great. Thank you very much.

Can you table with the committee any analysis your department has done on changing the rubric for eligibility for trade commissioner services since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic? I'm referring specifically to the trade commissioner service eligibility and service requirements.

[Sara Wilshaw]

Certainly. I am happy to table that.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Great. Thank you very much.

I have one other thing that I wanted to ask about. Can you table any analyses or reports your department has done on the effectiveness of trade commissioners in each region they're posted in, such as, again, referring to percentage of increase, dollar value and proactive outreach?

[Sara Wilshaw]

Yes, I'm happy to table that. I can provide some insights now, if you'd like.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

We're up against a very tight clock here, so if you have something very short to tell us, then we can get the rest of the information. That would be great.

[Sara Wilshaw]

Madam Chair, I'm very happy to tell the committee that in some cases our services have increased in certain areas. Problem-solving, as I mentioned, is up considerably against normal times of the year. Our client satisfaction rates are also dramatically increased because, of course, our clients really needed our help and were grateful to receive it.

Most of our numbers are down slightly over the usual year-on-year comparisons but still fairly impressive. If I might, I'll just say that in the last year we've been looking at 4,700 clients served or referred, almost 12,000 services delivered just in COVID, and over 790—nearly 800—successes.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you very much for that high-level description.

Can you table any analysis your department has done to prepare trade commissioners if Canada ends up going back to the WTO rules on December 31 in trade with the United Kingdom if we don't have an agreement?

[Sara Wilshaw]

Certainly. Just to be very clear on that and also on the earlier question, there is no change in the eligibility for our trade commissioners' clients. In terms of the firms we work with or any Canadian firms that are facing any kinds of challenges, we haven't changed the eligibility requirements, and we would not change the eligibility requirements for the companies with which we work in the face of any change in our trade agreements with the United Kingdom.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We will move on to Mr. Sarai.