Evidence of meeting #31 for International Trade in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.
A recording is available from Parliament.
2:45 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
I just want to come back to Mr. Noseworthy.
I'm curious. If there is a sector-specific industrial plan, or if there are a number of them, could you table with the committee what the Canadian government considers to be its top three best sector-specific industrial plans, and would one of those include clean tech?
2:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Clean Technology, Department of Industry
What we're doing on clean tech is specifically working with companies to understand their priorities. We're doing that collaboratively. We have a group across the departments that are represented here working directly with industry, talking to them about their priorities. We're asking them specifically what their strategic technology priorities are and where they see key lighthouse projects that they feel will drive the industry forward. That's the approach we've been taking to date.
That process has really been amplified [Technical difficulty—Editor].
2:45 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
For any sector, is there a sector-specific industrial plan that forecasts 10 or 20 years into the future? Could you table one with the committee, just so we have an example of what the government considers to be best practice for industrial policy? We could then compare the efforts on clean tech against it to see where you would ideally like to end up in terms of having a medium- and long-term plan.
2:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Clean Technology, Department of Industry
The approach we've taken so far, at least in the number of years I've been in government, is to focus more on how we drive specific technology areas within sectors. For example, road maps have been developed by Natural Resources Canada in areas like SMR development.
2:45 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Does that mean there's a philosophical objection to having a sector-based plan? For instance, just as an example, we could talk about the aerospace industry. Is there a philosophical objection within government to having a sector-specific plan, or is it just something we haven't actually gotten around to in any sector?
If we have gotten around to it in one sector, could you table that plan with the committee so that we have an example of what it looks like when it's complete?
2:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Clean Technology, Department of Industry
I'm not sure I would say there's a philosophical issue here, sir. I think the philosophy we sought to apply is that it's for industry to tell us what they need, not to tell them what we need.
2:45 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Sure, but we've heard from a lot of industries at this committee that they want industrial policy and want to work with government to fashion it, but it's not happening.
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you, Mr. Blaikie.
We move on to Mrs. Gray for five minutes, please.
2:45 p.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to all the witnesses for being here today.
Ms. Kwan, in your answer to Mr. Hoback on clean technology, you mentioned that there is a taxonomy that is used. Is that a formal document? Is it something you'd be able to table for this committee?
2:45 p.m.
Director General, Trade Sectors, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I will have to check with our data strategy experts. I don't know whether our ISED colleague would be able to comment a little bit on this, but if further information is needed, we'd be happy to provide it.
2:45 p.m.
Conservative
2:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Clean Technology, Department of Industry
We can certainly provide it to the committee.
2:45 p.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
That's great. Thank you kindly.
This study is ending shortly, so if we could get it soon, that would be wonderful.
Thank you.
2:45 p.m.
Director General, Trade Sectors, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
We'll get it to you as soon as possible.
2:45 p.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thanks.
I have a couple of questions regarding BDC. My understanding is that through the clean-tech practice it's intending to invest $600 million in high-potential clean-tech companies between 2018 and 2023. I'm wondering how much has been invested to date. We heard a total, Ms. Kwan, which you gave, of $370 million as of March, but I wasn't sure whether that was part of this or whether it was a different amount that you were giving. You were giving a number of statistics there.
Was that part of this, or was it for something else?
2:50 p.m.
Susan Rohac Vice-President, Cleantech Practice, Business Development Bank of Canada
Good afternoon. I can answer that.
Yes, the number that Ms. Kwan gave was specifically related to just the $600 million clean-tech fund that was given to us in the 2017 budget to exercise on a clean-tech strategy specifically aimed at a stretched risk lens for early-stage commercialization. We have invested $370 million of that plan to date.
We're seeing some very interesting technologies and interesting companies come out of this. One example I'll give to committee members is that of a Global Cleantech 100 list that's published every year. It's the list of the 100 best clean-tech companies globally. Eleven of them were Canadian in 2021, and seven of them are supported by BDC, so we are supporting some of the best of the best.
Also, for every dollar we've put into these companies, we see $4.50 of private sector money come in at the same time as us or after us. We are seeing that the companies we are supporting are able to leverage 4.5 times more dollars from the private sector to support their growth and commercialization.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you. That's really good information.
When would you expect to break even? When do you project that the BDC will make back that $600 million or the $370 million so far?
2:50 p.m.
Vice-President, Cleantech Practice, Business Development Bank of Canada
Speaking specifically to the clean-tech practice, we are profitable right now on a cash-on-cash basis as well as on a non-cash basis. We are profitable.
We do debt and equity within the fund. Our numbers are not yet finalized—our year-end is March 31—but we are a profitable fund right now.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Would you be able to table for the committee any projections or documents relating to this?
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you.
How many jobs have been created to date through the investments with BDC, specifically with this clean-tech practice?
2:50 p.m.
Vice-President, Cleantech Practice, Business Development Bank of Canada
I can table that as well. I don't have that statistic with me.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you.
Would you be able to table a list that includes the total value of the loans, grants or contributions made by the BDC or any of the development agencies or granting councils to any corporation with net earnings of $10 million or greater through the clean-tech practice?
2:50 p.m.
Vice-President, Cleantech Practice, Business Development Bank of Canada
Because of banker-customer confidentiality, I don't think I can disclose some of the financial statements of our borrowers. I can certainly provide, on a consolidated basis, some of the statistics you are looking for, but I don't think I can do it at a customer-by-customer level.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you.
Can you table with the committee the rubric you're using to evaluate the outcomes of the investments through the clean-tech practice?