International Trade Committee on May 28th, 2021

[The Chair (Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)), Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I call this meeting to order. This is meeting number 32 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on International Trade. Today's meeting is webcast and is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021.

I have received a meeting request pursuant to Standing Order 106(4). The committee is meeting today to deal with some other issues, but specifically, as well, I've added, pursuant to Standing Order 106(4), the request by four members of the committee to discuss undertaking a study of the countervailing and anti-dumping duties on the imports of Canadian softwood lumber by the United States.

Mrs. Gray, you have the floor to move the motion and to speak to it.

Go ahead, please.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

The motion I'm moving today is, I believe, of importance on an issue that could have significant implications for the Canadian forestry sector, which, as we know, employs hundreds of thousands of Canadians across the country and has particular significance in regions like British Columbia, Quebec and the Atlantic.

The U.S. Department of Commerce's preliminary determination on new combined tariff rates mean the tariffs will be doubled across the board on Canadian softwood exports if they come into force. Therefore, this motion is quite timely so that we can hear from Minister Ng and our officials on the plan to address this issue with our U.S. counterparts and stakeholders, and so that these preliminary determinations do not become final and become the newly enforced rates.

I hope all members of this committee will be supportive of this motion. Therefore, I move, pursuant to Standing Order 106(4):

That the committee hold a meeting to invite the Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade and relevant government officials to discuss the United States Department of Commerce’s preliminary determinations increasing duties on Canadian softwood lumber exports from 8.99% to 18.32%; that the meeting be at least two hours in length; that the minister appear for no fewer than one hour and that appropriate government officials appear for no fewer than two hours; and that this meeting occur no later than June 4, 2021.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Are there any comments or is there any discussion on the motion?

Yes, Mr. Savard-Tremblay.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I had a chance to speak with Ms. Gray in the past few days. As I told her, I fully support inviting government officials to discuss the fundamentally important issue of softwood lumber.

I did some thinking after our conversation, though, and I do have a question for her.

Why don't we recommend that the Special Committee on the Economic Relationship between Canada and the United States do it instead? The motion further to which the committee was appointed referenced softwood lumber as one of the areas it would examine. The committee was created assuming that this committee would not be able to cover all of the issues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Go ahead, Mrs. Gray.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

This is the international trade committee, and even though the Canada-U.S. committee can deal with a whole number of issues relating to the U.S., it doesn't preclude this committee's dealing with trade issues with the U.S. It is part of our overall mandate.

Following the appearance of the minister and the officials, the committee could perhaps choose to do a more fulsome study on this if that's something the members choose. They have other work, I know, that's planned right now, with buy America and Line 5 and other things, so that's their priority. We could choose to do that, but since we are the trade committee and the U.S. is our largest trading partner, this is fully within something that we could request.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you, Mrs. Gray.

Mr. Hoback.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Madam Chair, unfortunately I'm having some Internet problems, so I'm going to leave my screen off.

One of the reasons I think it's very important that this committee deal with it is that the special committee meets once a week and already has a full agenda with buy America. It's not that I think we shouldn't look at it; it's just that I don't think we would have time to look at it appropriately before we break for the summer. I think we need to have some things discussed before that happens. This is the right place for it to happen. This is where it happened the last time when we saw these tariffs come forward, and this is the committee that actually created the strategy to get these tariffs removed. When you look at the way it impacts Canada, from Atlantic Canada to Quebec, Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia, this is a huge issue and I think this is the place to do it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you, Mr. Hoback.

Mr. Arya.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Madam Chair, I understand the softwood lumber issue is very important for many parts of Canada, and I think there are many implications of what is happening there.

At the same time, the U.S. has formally requested a dispute settlement panel on the allegations that American products.... That's on the dairy sector. Those sorts of things also keep coming up.

Though New Zealand has not formerly complained, it too has some problems with the dairy agreement, where the quotas are not being utilized. There are various aspects that come through it, so I would like to hear more on this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Is there any further discussion?

Ms. Bendayan.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Madam Chair, everybody is talking about the full schedules that other committees might have. Here at CIIT, we also have important studies before us, including from our colleague from the Bloc Québécois—the reference from the House of Commons on the private member's bill of the Bloc Québécois.

I just wanted to add that Bill C-216 was referred to the committee and that we have other priorities as well.

I completely understand the rationale for wanting to study the softwood lumber situation, but we have a very important matter to deal with, Bill C-216.

Would the honourable member from the Bloc Québécois like to comment?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Monsieur Savard-Tremblay.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I see Ms. Gray would like to respond, and Mr. Dalton had his hand up as well.

I may have a suggestion to resolve the impasse once they've had a chance to speak.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Okay.

Ms. Gray.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Certainly we could be prepared to have an additional meeting. Also, I don't believe you've scheduled everything right through to the end of the session yet, so certainly as the chair, you can look at that. We'd be prepared to have an additional meeting, if that's required, so it doesn't hold up any other work we're supposed to be doing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you.

Is Mr. Hoback still with us, or has he gone?

Mr. Dalton, you have the floor.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you.

I just want to add my voice in support of the motion. This is very impactful. The tariff can have a tremendous impact. The previous one already has. It has closed so many mills, for example, in British Columbia and throughout Canada.

I think the attention and focus on this could add some light and be very helpful.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you.

We will go to Mr. Lobb and then Monsieur Savard-Tremblay.

Mr. Lobb.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

In my riding, we likely have over 600 supply-managed farms—it's likely more than that—and we think of the employment that spins off from that.

I hear what Mr. Savard is saying, but at the same time, could you imagine not dealing with this issue at the trade committee and giving it to somebody else, or turning it down? There are people, whether builders or woodlot owners—in a corporate sense—or sawmills, who are counting on this, and it's a huge part of some rural economies, for sure.

I think we can do both and make sure we meet the mandate. There are a lot of Canadians who would be counting on us to get more answers on these tariffs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

We will go to Monsieur Savard-Tremblay and then Monsieur Sarai.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I have an amendment.

As alluded to by Ms. Bendayan, the supply management study is very important to me.

I want to be sure we don't go longer than we are supposed to.

I propose that a clarification be added, but it would not alter the rest of the motion. I move the following wording be added at the end of Ms. Gray's motion: “whereas the meeting of June 7 be devoted to Bill C-216”.

I think we should put that in writing.

That is the amendment I am proposing to the motion put forward by the Conservatives.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Okay. Go ahead, Mr. Sarai.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Madam Chair, I wanted to state that softwood lumber is an important issue for me, Mr. Dhaliwal and others from British Columbia. It's a paramount issue. However, I think the CAAM committee is already looking at a lot of these protectionist measures and has looked at this. They would probably be the appropriate place for this study at this time. I'm a member of that as well, as is my colleague from the other side here. I think that might be the appropriate measure, as the timeline for doing such in this committee might be very tight.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Go ahead, Ms. Bendayan.