Evidence of meeting #11 for International Trade in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was prices.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Tony Baldinelli Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
Mr. Balisky, if I could ask you the same type of question in terms of the specific involvements you've possibly had, was Meadow Lake's input sought? Did you help to contribute to efforts to negotiate a new softwood lumber accord?
4:35 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Meadow Lake Tribal Council Industrial Investments
We're just a very small player in the Canadian landscape, but we're an important player. We like to think of ourselves as the high point in the Canadian landscape when it comes to indigenous forestry. Unique in Canada is this bright light, in Saskatchewan of all places, with ownership in a manufacturing facility. At this level, we believe we're the largest indigenous exporter to the U.S., period, but also an important...the one and only softwood lumber exporter in Canada.
We've been watching this, and of course we've been through this in prior iterations over the last two decades. We are now, as we've discussed, looking at options across the border that might influence an outcome that might be favourable, at least for the indigenous-producer sector. It's a small sector that needs to be nurtured and one that needs to be encouraged. We're looking at all manner of doing that, both with the Canadian government and also helping ourselves with potential allies in the U.S.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Tony Baldinelli Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
I have a short amount of time, but I'd like to offer Mr. Lalonde an opportunity to say a few words on that as well.
4:35 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Resolute Forest Products
We're certainly supportive of dialogue. We try to encourage it and participate wherever we can, whether it be having our own relationship with the National Association of Homebuilders, which we do, or keeping engagement with the federal government, the provincial governments and also our contacts with the U.S. government. We are definitely involved in the issue.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Wilson Miao Liberal Richmond Centre, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for joining us today on this important study on softwood lumber.
I'd like to address the following question to Mr. Lee, please, Madam Chair.
On April 22, 2021, in a letter to the U.S. Trade Representative, the U.S. National Association of Home Builders mentioned concerns that the softwood lumber dispute between Canada and the United States remained unsolved.
How does the United States' unwarranted and unfair application of anti-dumping duties and countervailing duties on certain Canadian softwood lumber products impact the U.S. National Association of Home Builders and its counterparts? Contrast that impact to that felt by Canada's sector.
4:40 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Home Builders' Association
I think what you are seeing in the United States are not only the supply and demand issues that are driving up prices, but also this added cost of the duties. As Mr. Lalonde outlined earlier, Canada is a huge source of lumber and historically a trusted trading partner, if you will, despite all of the jockeying back and forth from the U.S. lumber industry itself, which is usually behind the lumber disputes in the first place. They're not capable of providing 100% of their own lumber requirements, and Canada has always been an important part of this.
In the United States, they're facing increased costs, further causing increased house prices and construction costs. For the industries both north and south of the border, all this volatility causes all kinds of concerns in terms of supply uncertainty. It's very difficult in Canada too, because our Canadian lumber industry relies so much on exports to the United States. It becomes very difficult for them to staff their plants and manufacturing facilities and to predict what demand is going to be. In turn, that affects supply and costing in Canada as well.
Even though we're not affected to the same degree with the duties themselves, all the uncertainty, price volatility, supply uncertainty and all of that affects the Canadian home builders, renovators and consumers in an indirect way, and it's part of the reason we're so supportive of getting this all resolved. Wouldn't it be so much better if the Canadian lumber industry were, instead of paying these tariffs, using that money to continue to improve its own productivity, ramp up facilities and so on? It's a very unfortunate waste of dollars and time for the Canadian industry.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Wilson Miao Liberal Richmond Centre, BC
Thank you.
In your opinion, has the United States government demonstrated the same level of commitment to its softwood lumber industry that Minister Ng has displayed to the Canadian softwood lumber industry, and what further action could the United States government have taken to resolve this dispute?
4:40 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Home Builders' Association
I suppose one could say that, unfortunately, they have been listening a lot to their own lumber lobby, which is why we're in the situation we're in, rather than following international law, in which case we wouldn't be in the situation we are in.
Definitely it's something that the Canadian government needs to continue to pursue and to press hard on, because we need to get through this. Ideally we would have been through this five years ago, but here we still are. There's more that needs to be done, and we are certainly happy to support in any way we can.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Wilson Miao Liberal Richmond Centre, BC
What engagement have you had with the United States stakeholders? Can you share with us some of their feedback?
4:40 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Home Builders' Association
We mostly have been working with our U.S. home builder counterparts, the National Association of Home Builders. They have an entire lobby and legal effort there. It's a very large organization, well organized, and doing some good work.
To be frank, one of the challenges in dealing with Canada are that, because we are fragmented, everybody goes with their own different deals at the provincial versus the national level. That's not to say anything about the first nations—that's a different situation—but because we have different producing provinces and the federal government, it is very tricky.
The more of a holistic front that can be presented to the United States, the better. That is, of course, the great federated model. It's a lot more complicated than the Americans saying to us, “Well, if you all just came as one big, united voice, it would be easier.” Welcome to Canada. One thing that has come back is that with a more united front...the closer we can get to that, probably the stronger voice we will have.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you very much, Mr. Miao.
I have a question for the committee.
We have completed two rounds. Do the committee members have any other questions that they want to make sure get asked?
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Mr. Masse, I'm sorry; I didn't see your hand. If you have another question you want to get out there, please go ahead.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Real quick, does anybody have comments about this? Sometimes we have won agreements, but we haven't taken all the monied resources from those agreements that we've won back.
Are there any suggestions, if we finally get through the appeal here, on what to do with those funds? Sometimes we have left money on the table after winning them in court.
4:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Meadow Lake Tribal Council Industrial Investments
I know that for the first nations, we would be pleased to be able to contribute those back to communities, to key infrastructure projects and social programs to continue building team Canada.
4:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Resolute Forest Products
Thank you.
A billion dollars is the amount of money that was left behind the border at the last trade dispute, $500 million of which went to the coalitions of U.S. producers who brought the complaint. The other $500 million went to what we call “meritorious initiatives” to promote the use of softwood lumber. All of that is fine.
Certainly, if we recover the duties, we want to take care of our business. We want to grow. We want to transform. We want to invest. To the points that were made earlier, all of this is good. We want to invest in our business. We want to continue to grow. We're optimistic about lumber for the long term, and we want to continue to compete.
If I may, very quickly, I thought Mr. Lee's answer on the situation was very good.
The one thing the Americans could do tomorrow that would set the stage for a resolution is to renounce their appeal of the WTO decision and just implement it, like they did in the case on olives from Spain. This issue is a long way down the path to a resolution.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
My question is for Mr. Lalonde.
Would it be possible to export our lumber to markets other than the U.S.?
I sometimes talk to French people who work in the construction industry, and they always turn to steel because lumber costs them a fortune. We always say we need to be less dependent on Americans.
Do you think this could represent an opportunity?
