International Trade Committee on Oct. 9th, 2024

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Okay, I'll just ask the question and maybe she can answer later.

You mentioned about regulatory inefficiencies and how government agencies should modernize. That applies to all entrepreneurs. Is there anything specific that you'd like us to do that will help women entrepreneurs in particular?

[Heidi Reimer-Epp]

Am I allowed to answer that at this point? Yes.

I'm encouraged by the work that the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters is doing to look at red tape and barriers to trade, so what could be done would be to partner with an association like CME to take their insights into what the impediments are and then to work systematically at clearing them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Baldinelli, you have five minutes.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being with us today.

Thank you all for your presentations and your comments.

Ms. Reimer-Epp, I'm going to follow up on your comments and the three recommendations you made during your presentation. The third one was about the regulatory inefficiencies in place that are hindering export opportunities and business growth potential.

Can you expand on what you and your company are facing? You mentioned phytosanitary provisions and regulatory rules, which kind of preclude you, because of the timelines, from capitalizing on sales and access to markets. Can you explain that a little more?

[Heidi Reimer-Epp]

It is a challenge, because the speed of business these days is very fast, particularly when you are specializing in e-commerce, which is what we are doing. We're selling consumer goods, goods within the promotional products industry, packaging and memorial products, and a wide range of paper products.

On the one hand, we have our customers who are expecting Amazon-like experiences with same-day, next-day or two-day delivery. Then you have us as a CME working to fulfill the same level of expectations. When we're partnering with a government agency to get the phytosanitary certificates to satisfy international seed exporting and importing requirements, there's a lack of speedy technology that would allow the rapid delivery of those certificates, and that is what has slowed us down.

From my perspective, it feels quite simple; we just need a portal where we can request the certificate and get it the same day, and then we would be off and running. I appreciate that it's more difficult than that, but at the same time, we're being asked as a company to digitize and embrace this technology, and we would like to see the same in our government partners.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you for that.

I'm going to go to Ms. Lockyer next.

Earlier, my colleague mentioned the opinion piece that you shared on March 23. In it, you said that women business owners have created more than 1.5 million jobs and contributed about $150 billion to the Canadian economy, according to research by the Canadian Federation of Independent Business. Despite that, a recent survey of women entrepreneurs by the non-profit PARO Centre found that they are facing challenges that negatively affect their mental health and wellness.

Can you expand on that?

[Rosalind Lockyer]

Yes, I can.

At the time I wrote that, we were transitioning out of the pandemic, and women had additional pressures on them because of their situations at home, between looking after their children—trying to teach them on the screen instead of in school—and their elders' problems and so on. Then, on top of that, they lost business because they couldn't pivot fast enough to the online economy if they were running retail and service businesses, which women do more of, and that added increased pressure.

All of that stress and pressure do impact your mental health. Because of that, we've added things to our program, as have other women's organizations, that recognize that kind of stress and how it affects mental and physical health, as well as presenting long-term disadvantages to the family, the community and our economy if women are impacted that way.

We do need to recognize that this is a fact and we need to keep working and supporting women so they can carry on the very important role they play in our lives.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you.

In a recent survey from CFIB, 67% of the members identified tax and regulatory costs as a major cost constraint on their business.

Would you agree?

[Rosalind Lockyer]

Yes, I would, definitely.

Taxation is changing all the time. I know that in various countries it is quite different from what it is like in Canada. Canada does need to have more tax incentives for business start-up and to keep businesses going, because otherwise people are not going to take the risk.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Fortier, go ahead, please.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Witnesses, I want to start by thanking you again. What you're telling us is very helpful. I think it really gives us a perspective on how we can continue to support women entrepreneurs in international trade.

The Library of Parliament often prepares questions for us, and there's one I find really interesting and want to explore. If you don't mind, I'll read you the background to the question, which some of you may want to answer. Empirical evidence suggests that a firm’s inability to obtain as much credit as it needs will tend to reduce its exports. According to a 2020 report prepared by two United Nations agencies, women obtain smaller loans on less favourable terms than men because they encounter discrimination from financial institutions around the world. Moreover, in 2019, Global Affairs Canada observed that women might encounter violence and harassment when travelling outside the country, especially at border crossings, thereby limiting their ability and willingness to participate in international trade and investment.

In Canada, do women entrepreneurs who export find it difficult to get financing? If so, what are their challenges? Also, do women entrepreneurs get smaller loans than their male counterparts?

[Lechin Lu]

I can give it a shot.

I think we are definitely seeing research that is showing the gap in funding received by women entrepreneurs compared to their male counterparts. I think the problems are multipronged.

One thing that was mentioned earlier by other witnesses is the gender pay gap that exists in Canada and globally. The gender pay gap also leads to gender investment gaps and gender savings gaps. It's all connected. All these intergenerational and historical gaps and disadvantage have impacted women's ability to access financing, both in terms of debt financing and also in equity financing.

When we look at measures to close these gaps, we can't just look into the current snapshots; current moments are only one part of it. We have to take a more holistic approach and look at all these other factors that are contributing to why women do not have access. One of them is a lack of collateral. That is also rooted in a lot of historical problems, especially for people like indigenous women and maybe immigrant women and their credit scores in Canada.

Hopefully that will answer your question.

From a research point of view, we also need more research and better data in order to understand better.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Does anyone else want to answer my question?

[Rosalind Lockyer]

I think that we have to look at it systemically. There are historical, cultural and systemic barriers. Women have a perception, when they go to ask for funds, that they're not going to get them rather than that they're going to get them. That deters them as well.

Until all of these challenges are improved, it's going to be the same. There's a lot of unconscious bias. People don't think that they're biased at all against women when it really is there because that's what they've heard. They've heard that women have a lack of confidence. They've heard that women have a lack of funding. The women hear this, and others hear it. It still has a negative effect on how women are faring in growing their business and in exporting.

We have a lot of work to do. Two years of funding that doesn't start until six months in is just not going to crack it. We need to tackle these big problems. We know the big problems; we need to have a long-term plan on how to address them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We'll move on to Mr. Savard-Tremblay for two and a half minutes.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Is this my last turn?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Yes, it is. This is round three.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

That's great.

Then I would like to give notice of a motion on a completely different topic. Just to reassure the committee, I'm not asking for the meeting to be suspended. We'll be able to continue our study.

In the interest of transparency, I would like to be able to give notice of my motion while the committee meeting is public. The motion will naturally be sent to members in both official languages, and I would like us to address it at the next meeting.

My motion deals with the issue of forced labour and reads as follows:

Given that: (a) in its Budget presented in March 2023, the government had announced its intention to introduce legislation by 2024 to eliminate forced labour from Canadian supply chains and to strengthen the ban on the importation of goods produced by forced labour (page 195 of the French version and page 171 of the English version); (b) in its Budget presented in March 2024, the government had announced that it would accomplish such a measure during the year 2024 (page 369 of the French version and page 320 of the English version); (c) to date, the government has still not acted, and no bill has yet been tabled; (d) following a unanimous motion adopted on November 28, 2023, the Committee had sent a letter to the government, reminding it of its commitment and requesting a response to the Committee's attention and explaining the reasons for this inaction, but that despite this nothing has yet been done by the Government; That the Committee report back to the House to express that recourse to these practices, which undermine the fundamental rights of workers, vulnerable people and children, is totally inadmissible, and that it finds the government's inaction deplorable and unacceptable.

Madam Chair, do I have any time left? I want to get back to the business at hand.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Yes, you do, because I didn't take your time to read that out. I left the motion....

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

It just makes sense. I would have done the same for you.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

You're very generous, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

We try to be kind and polite to all the members.

You have two and 20 seconds left.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Did you tell me I had only 20 seconds left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have two minutes and 20 seconds, providing you get going.