International Trade Committee on Oct. 21st, 2024

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Why was this consultation not held in 2023, given that the government had committed to introducing a bill before the end of the year?

You say that you are currently taking steps, that the door is not closed and that, this time, we could very well see the bill before the end of the year. But why didn't you keep your word last year?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

We have been working on it all the way along. It is, in fact, through the course of the work that it became clear to us that we needed to be out there a little more, in much more detail, with a wider group of people because of the complexities of how we would implement this, so it is really important. In fact, to go back to today's study, what we're really talking about is making sure there is a level playing field.

When I talk about Canada being an open trading country but a fair trading country, fair trade means that we price in paying our workers. Fair trade means complying with environmental provisions. That is the kind of fairness we need in the global marketplace. Forced labour and how we eradicate it from our supply chains is something we are taking very seriously, but we also want to get it right. That is the work that my officials and I are doing.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

We know that aluminum production in Xinjiang has grown massively in recent years. Today it accounts for about 10% of the world's supply. However, much of the aluminum produced in Xinjiang is shipped out of the region. That aluminum is then mixed with other metals to make aluminum alloys in other parts of China, including for the automotive industry. However, according to Human Rights Watch, once aluminum is melted and mixed with other materials, it becomes impossible to determine whether it comes from Xinjiang or another part of the world.

Finally, aluminum produced using forced labour enters domestic and global supply chains. Often, auto manufacturers won't know where the aluminum they use comes from.

Does that worry you? In your opinion, is aluminum produced in Xinjiang finding its way into supply chains without manufacturers and consumers knowing?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

We should always be concerned when there's forced labour in the supply chain, whether it's in the aluminum sector or anywhere else. Just as we have implemented a system for melt and pour for steel, we are looking at a comparable transparency measure for aluminum. I think that's really important.

In Canada, what is really terrific about our aluminum is that we do all of the production here. With regard to green aluminum, I look at the joint venture that's taking place in Quebec, which you will be very aware of. It's an important Canadian investment—together with the Americans—to make sure that our aluminum supply chain that is so important.... It isn't just for autos; it's also for things like the aerospace industry and many other industries that depend on green aluminum.

I'm very proud of the investment work that we have undertaken very intentionally so that we are increasing our capacity to produce green aluminum here in Canada—mostly out of Quebec—to supply the follow-on value chain that will depend on that Canadian aluminum. However, greater transparency is absolutely needed, and we're working on that for Canada's aluminum sector as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Minister.

We have a new member for the NDP. Mr. Cannings has moved to another committee.

Welcome, Mr. Desjarlais, to our committee. We get along very well here. We work well together, and we look forward to your being with us as well.

The floor is yours for six minutes, sir.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much to the minister for being present at my very first Standing Committee on International Trade meeting as international trade critic for the NDP. It's a pleasure to be joining all of my colleagues in this important work.

I know the study on EVs, particularly as it relates to the serious issues that have been brought to the New Democratic Party. Largely, the issues pertain to domestic protection of good union jobs here, but they're also about protecting the integrity of workers across the globe. That includes workers who are being exploited, whom we know of, in explicit cases in China. I'm really pleased to see the work related to these tariffs. I know it's an important piece of this work, and it's something I'm pleased is finally happening.

As you know, I'm a bit dismayed about the length of time it took, but I'm just glad that we're here today and tomorrow. It will have an impact on our businesses here, so I want to thank you for that.

In your opening remarks, you spoke about the importance of the EV production sector here in Canada. You spoke about the relationship between the government and its investment of nearly $37 billion in the production of EV capacities here in Canada. Of course, that's going to take a tremendous amount of investment and work overseas.

You're also simultaneously looking at trying to shore up supply chains for critical minerals elsewhere, including in Ecuador. Is that correct?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

What we're always trying to do in the work in Canada is to create resilient supply chains among many trading partners. What I can tell you in terms of the supply chain or the critical minerals agreements that we have right now is that they are with the United States, Europe, Japan and Korea. They are with like-minded countries that will share our values with respect to the environment and to wages for workers.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

With regard to Ecuador, Minister, the important piece I'd like to focus on is whether Canada should be producing or procuring critical minerals, particularly from countries like Ecuador. This leads to my question, if you can answer it to the best of your ability: Are you and your ministry currently working on a trade agreement with Ecuador?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

What my department and I have done is consult widely on what a trade agreement could be like with Ecuador. That consultation has taken place, and we've had good feedback on that.

Maybe I'll answer your question this way: I want to assure you and Canadians that Canada does trade by leading with its values. Those values have to be values that are good for workers and the environment. They also must be inclusive in nature. We expect Canadian companies that are operating anywhere in the world, including in Ecuador, to adhere to global standards, global standards that also have strong ESG provisions in them. However, I'll have to get an update from my officials around the status of the....

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Maybe Mr. Stewart or Mr. Fowler can comment on the accuracy of this statement.

Is it true or is it false that Canada is participating in a discussion with Ecuador toward a free trade agreement? Is that true or false?

[Aaron Fowler, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Trade Policy and Negotiations, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

That is true.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you. I think that's the important piece and clarity we need for Canadians.

The fact of the matter is that you are in a discussion with Ecuador. Recently, by way of a constitutional referendum, they challenged their own population to question whether or not protection for their forests and natural resources, including the access to protection for water...something that indigenous leaders were just here for. They came, all the way from the rural parts of Ecuador, right to the doorstep of Canada's Parliament here. They're begging, pleading with this government that we listen to the very legitimate and important demands that these nations have.

These are real people who have occupied these traditional territories for millennia, much like in Canada. In Canada, we have a history of plowing over indigenous rights—we talk about this every September 30, for example. When it comes to international trade, I think it's a perspective that indigenous people are becoming more participatory in—and that's a good thing—but it's important that we also call out the very damaging historical frameworks and systemic violence that, largely, stem from free trade agreements, and that's what's happening in Ecuador.

We have brave indigenous women coming forward to Canada's Parliament. They shouldn't even have to do this, Minister, and this is what dismays me the most: They come to our Parliament, saying that they have to ask that Canada not move forward with these discussions unless it can guarantee that Canada will respect their free, prior and informed consent.

Minister, my question is simple: Will we as Canadians change our history in terms of how we interact in the global arena? Will we better regulate our companies, particularly our mining companies? Will we participate in a process with Ecuador that truly protects the rights of indigenous people there, which will or should include full acknowledgement of their free, prior and informed consent, including their right to say no to a project? Is Canada committed to that globally? I'm certain that, in Canada, we have indigenous leaders who question that locally.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

There's not a lot of time, so I'm happy to continue the answer to the question. IPETCA, the Indigenous Peoples Economic Cooperation and Trade Arrangement, is something that Canada is a leader in working with other nations, and—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Can you focus on Ecuador's case? They were just here.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

You should be reassured, as Canadians are, that, when Canada enters into any dialogue and discussion, it's a dialogue and a discussion and, while that happens, it will always and has to consider the values that are really important to Canada. The value of indigenous...the value and importance of reconciliation and the consideration of that in all that we do, including in commerce and trade, including—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Is that a no, then? Will we respect their rights to prior and informed consent?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I'm sorry, Mr. Desjarlais, but your time is up.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We move to Mr. Martel for five minutes, please.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, thank you for being here.

Why have you not opened up new markets for our canola farmers in the last five years, when you knew they were being targeted by China?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Indeed, we're very much working on opening up new markets. Take a look at Canada's negotiation with Indonesia, a country in the southeast Asia region made up of 277 million people, and our negotiations with the ASEAN, the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, which is made up of 10 markets. The reason I say that, in terms of your question, is that we are absolutely actively at the table right now in those negotiations, but more than that, I'm taking trade missions, actual businesses into those economies.

Why is it really important? It's exactly as you said: They're new markets—700 million people, the fastest-growing part of the world with the fifth-largest economy, at $3.8 trillion U.S. We're working very hard, particularly with Canadian businesses, to enter into those new markets.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Since your government took office, the softwood lumber dispute between Canada and the United States has resurfaced, and you still haven't found common ground. Our forestry industry is currently suffering. As you know, the tariffs have gone from 8% to 14%, and they are projected to reach 30%.

What are you going to do about that?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

This industry is so important, as I know you well know, because it is so much a part of the community you represent, and those tariffs are completely unjustified.

What I want to say to the forestry sector, to those you represent and to others across the country is that I very much appreciate and thank them for some very intensive dialogues we've been having with them recently, knowing full well that these tariffs are unjustified and we are quite concerned about them. I've been raising this with our American partners and with the USTR. I believe the best way forward continues to be an agreement. These tariffs are making it way too expensive not only for us but certainly for the Americans and their homebuilding industry. Know that it's important to keep doing this work, but not just to get any deal. It has to be a deal that's good for our industry.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Minister, the Americans don't seem to want to negotiate with Canada.

Does the Liberal government lack leadership? Will delaying the implementation of tariffs on China make our bilateral relations with the Americans even more difficult in the future?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

I think the record of the government speaks for itself.

We renegotiated NAFTA here. It doesn't matter who is in the White House; we will work with the Americans, and we're ready to work with the Americans.

To your point about our relationship with the United States, we're building critical supply chains in parts of the economy that are really going to matter going forward. You are seeing us take action to align with North American competitiveness on automobiles because we're so integrated. You are seeing us work together in areas like technology and semiconductors. We are at the table right now to make sure we have strong science and technology capabilities between us. These are two countries with democratic values and a strong respect for the international rules-based order, and you're seeing more alignment than ever with a trading partner that is just so important to Canada.