Evidence of meeting #125 for International Trade in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Vice-President, Sawmills, J.D. Irving Limited and Chair, New Brunswick Lumber Producers
There is still no agreement, because there have been no negotiations. We have to start with negotiations.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
That's a good answer.
Mr. Harder, would you like to add any comments?
W&M Enterprises
As I said earlier, it's the same thing: There have been no negotiations. There's been no engagement until the last possible second, and you don't negotiate with a strong negotiator at the eleventh hour. You start a bit earlier than that.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Yes, Madam Chair.
Let's take it a step further. Let's imagine a deal that isn't a discount deal. First, let's talk about the ideal deal, then the realistic deal and, finally, the deal we definitely don't want to see come to fruition.
Vice-President, Sawmills, J.D. Irving Limited and Chair, New Brunswick Lumber Producers
In my opinion, a realistic agreement would allow Canadian producers to continue to have reasonable access to the U.S. market and to recover a significant portion of their deposits.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you very much.
Mr. Desjarlais, you have two minutes. I'm trying to give the other members an opportunity, so please keep it to two minutes.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Mr. Pelletier, in 2017, when the Trump administration imposed tariffs on Canadian softwood lumber, they were as high as 24% for some companies.
What was the percentage Irving paid?
Vice-President, Sawmills, J.D. Irving Limited and Chair, New Brunswick Lumber Producers
I'm going off memory, but I believe it was around 8% or 9%.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
I believe it was 3%, according to a CBC article. Does that seem more accurate?
Vice-President, Sawmills, J.D. Irving Limited and Chair, New Brunswick Lumber Producers
The 3% figure was only for the countervailing duty portion of our duty, and you have to add the anti-dumping amount we paid—what we call the “all others” rate—which was the Canadian average, so I think it was 3% plus 6% for a total of 9%, or close to 9%.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Why is it that some of your domestic competitors paid up to 24%?
Vice-President, Sawmills, J.D. Irving Limited and Chair, New Brunswick Lumber Producers
At the time, if I recall, the respondents for the countervailing duty were Irving, Resolute, Canfor, West Fraser and, I believe, Tolko.
Vice-President, Sawmills, J.D. Irving Limited and Chair, New Brunswick Lumber Producers
Yes, the biggest. Irving was a voluntary respondent, which means we were the only Canadian company at the time that wanted to be voluntarily examined by the U.S. Department of Commerce. That's why we received our own rate. The weighted average rate for all of those five companies was much higher than ours because we effectively demonstrated that the level of subsidies in New Brunswick is almost null.
Liberal
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Thank you very much, Chair, and thank you for organizing this. It means a lot.
Thank you, everybody.
November 4th, 2024 / 12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Pelletier, you said that, in the Canada-U.S.-Mexico Agreement, or CUSMA, there was nothing in favour of our forest industry. You also said that the Minister of Export Promotion, International Trade and Economic Development was still holding discussions, but that an agreement absolutely had to be reached.
If I understand correctly, to come to an agreement, it has to be a priority for both countries. But we seem to be sticking our heads in the sand a little bit.
In your opinion, if the government hasn't been able to reach an agreement to date, is it because they haven't made it a priority?
When the Prime Minister took office, in 2015, Barack Obama was the President of the United States. They were said to be great friends. If the deal had been a priority then, it should have been done.
Were you disappointed by the Obama administration? And yet, the Prime Minister and the president had a good relationship?
Vice-President, Sawmills, J.D. Irving Limited and Chair, New Brunswick Lumber Producers
Thank you for the question.
There are several things to consider. At the start of the conflict, many Canadian producers believed that the legal route would serve the Canadian industry well. So that was the route that was followed as a priority at the outset. Unfortunately, this option did not work out well for the Canadian industry.
In addition, the Minister of Foreign Affairs at the time had to deal with the fact that Canadian industry was not always well aligned with American industry, which made things difficult for her. This is no longer the case today, as our industry is well aligned with that of the U.S.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
Mr. Pelletier, do you believe that Canada's delay in following certain U.S. policies can hinder good negotiations on a potential softwood lumber agreement? I'm thinking of what happened with the tariffs imposed by China, for example. Canada was slow to react on this issue.
Vice-President, Sawmills, J.D. Irving Limited and Chair, New Brunswick Lumber Producers
I don't know enough about these files to comment on them, unfortunately. I'm sorry.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
All right.
I think there must be a problem with leadership. I've been involved in negotiations all my life. You're going to tell me that it's not the same, but the fact remains that, to succeed in concluding agreements, you have to have leadership.
If it's not a priority for the Americans to negotiate with Canada, Canada has to make it a priority. It has to show leadership and bring the other side to the table. That's why I'm wondering about it.
You mentioned a small group that seems to be disruptive about these negotiations. This is the first I've heard of it.
Could you tell us more about that?
Vice-President, Sawmills, J.D. Irving Limited and Chair, New Brunswick Lumber Producers
I was talking about some Canadian producers who weren't fully aligned with the negotiating strategy. I was saying that this could have made the minister's job more difficult at the time.
Today, most players in the Canadian industry want negotiations to begin and for the current minister and the Prime Ministerto get involved in the file. We believe that they both need to be involved for the file to move forward.