Evidence of meeting #127 for International Trade in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was business.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Indigenous Women and Youth Program Manager, National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association
I mentioned Emilie McKinney in my opening remarks. That's one such example. We do have a few different women we've supported who are engaged in international trade.
We have an example close to Ottawa that we can share. The company is called Mini Tipi. They're a really great example. I know they've been supported by a lot of great organizations, including Export Development Canada.
We can share a few different success stories.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I wish to thank the witnesses for their presentations.
Good afternoon, ladies.
My question is not for any one of you in particular. Whoever is able to answer is free to do so.
I'm very interested in indigenous entrepreneurship. In fact, the shoes I'm wearing right now come from Bastien Industries, a company in Wendake that does a lot of exporting. It's an interesting business. I would like to point out that I, myself, am a member of the Huron-Wendat Nation. I am always pleased to go to Wendake to encourage the people of my nation, especially when the production is of high quality.
Allow me to make a somewhat political point before circling back to the economic issues. We know that the Indian Act divides first nations. Everyone has a position on it. Personally, I find the act absurd, and its title even more so. The act makes it very difficult to create, register and set up businesses on what are, sadly, called “reserves”.
By making it complicated to access, create and establish businesses on reserves are we not fostering illicit trade, crime and undeclared activity?
Liberal
Indigenous Women and Youth Program Manager, National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association
Thank you.
We know that the Indian Act creates various barriers to first nations entrepreneurs looking to operate their business on reserve. In fact, our data shows that many of the businesses we support are in urban areas. They are living outside of their communities, so they're closer to various networks, customers, suppliers and financial institutions.
While I can't address your question exactly about criminal activity that could be taking place in business and entrepreneurship, I think there's a lot of misunderstanding among indigenous entrepreneurs about what it means to operate a business on reserve and what legal and regulatory requirements need to be followed.
Thank you.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Although she ceded the floor to Ms. Perron, Ms. Nepinak may still want to add something in response to this specific question.
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
Yes. Thank you so much for the question.
You're absolutely right. The Indian Act creates obstacles for indigenous people. There are complications around land ownership and transfers, and it discriminates against women very strongly, decreasing their ability to access financing and business opportunities.
The other piece is the view that ownership is collective. For example, if there is a bison farm in the community, it does not belong to one specific family; it belongs to the entire community. Is that a barrier to entrepreneurship? I'm not sure, because collective thinking and collective ownership of this bison farm relate to sustenance, food and being able to live a good quality of life, since it's available to the community.
As for whether or not there is criminality, I believe there are systemic issues perpetuated by governments that can lead to criminality. Whether or not they do needs further study and questioning.
Thank you.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
In 2022, the government promised to award at least 5% of federal contracts to businesses led and managed by indigenous people.
Do you know where things stand? Was that promise kept? Are there any statistics on the matter, to your knowledge?
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
I wasn't aware the government had taken that position.
I'm sorry. I can't answer that.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Perhaps Ms. Perron has something to add to that.
Indigenous Women and Youth Program Manager, National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association
My understanding is this: At least in terms of the federal government's 5% set-aside for indigenous businesses, it's been very slow-moving. I know that Indigenous Services Canada is outperforming other departments. I'm aware of that. It would be nice to see an improvement across all departments.
Of course, addressing the earlier topic of indigeneity, and fraudulent claims to indigeneity, would be necessary.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for being present today. It really is always a good day when we have some strong indigenous voices in the House of Commons speak to the very important needs of indigenous people.
This study, as you just heard from some of the questions earlier, was originally focused on Canadian women in international trade. It was expanded to help include indigenous people, particularly indigenous women, who face some of the greatest economic barriers across the country. You're doing an immense job. You're lifting boulders, massive boulders, that women have been carrying in our country for a very long time and smashing barriers with them. I want to just say thank you for your immense service and contribution to indigenous people, particularly indigenous women, as we strive to see our nations rebuilt and taking their rightful place in our economy.
You know just as well as I do that indigenous people have long stewarded this place. We have big trade agreements that stem from nation to nation for thousands of years. How else do you get an obsidian arrowhead all the way up to Tuktoyaktuk? That's through trade. That's through commerce. You're rebuilding something that colonialism has taken away from us, which is our very, very important opportunity for the next generation to prosper.
We've noted several challenges to that prosperity today. One of them, of course, is this significant issue of the lack of verifiability of people who are claiming to be indigenous for the purpose of federal grants. This is a serious issue. We've been dealing with this issue here in the House of Commons. We're talking about millions of dollars at risk. One of my previous colleagues just mentioned that 1,100 companies were just delisted—1,100. That's immense. That's the amount of inappropriateness that's taking place when it comes to federal grants and services.
I'm concerned when we think about, for example, the women entrepreneurship strategy. I'm concerned that indigenous women or non-indigenous people could be claiming to be an indigenous company for the purpose of even this fund. We don't know how far this issue goes. It's really an incredibly important issue that we address here at the House of Commons. We need to have verifiability of indigenous people are applying for grants, services and programs so that those truly get to the people they're meant to get to. The risk we run when we allow persons to apply who are not indigenous and not verified is money out of the pockets of indigenous people. That's why indigenous people are so angry—legitimately angry and legitimately upset—about this very critical issue.
I was really pleased that you mentioned one of the solutions to this, which is to involve indigenous people. Wow, that's incredibly important advice that I wish that we would have taken credence of prior to some of these very serious issues.
In addition to bringing awareness to this issue, what other advice do you have for lawmakers trying to ensure that if or when we create a program for indigenous women, we can create verifiability for that work? How do you do that in your own organizations? I think that could maybe even be a model that can help us to understand why this is a credible issue.
That's for both of you, maybe starting with Madame Perron.
Indigenous Women and Youth Program Manager, National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association
For us, when we developed our indigenous women's entrepreneur program, we defined an indigenous women-owned business as a business that is owned over 51% by an indigenous woman, but they also have to have effective control over their business. That means that they have to be essential to the operations and the success of the business.
We also added additional layers, particularly around husband and wife and whether they would be eligible for the program. Ultimately, based on an advisory council that was formed, made up of members of our indigenous financial institutions, they felt that they would not be eligible for the business. In that case, that, then, is not truly an indigenous woman-led or owned business. Ultimately, the husband is the one running the business, and it would fall outside of who we're trying to support.
Those are some of the mechanisms we put in place. We also rely heavily on our indigenous financial institutions that are located across the country in communities and have those connections to verify indigenous identity.
Thank you for the question.
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
Yes, thank you. It's nice to meet you, Mr. Desjarlais, online.
I believe that taking those contracts and grants from indigenous applicants or pretending that you're indigenous is bordering on criminality and fraudulent behaviour. Would this happen to other non-indigenous entities? Would they get away with it? They've been getting away with it for far too long, right? Unless we involve indigenous women, indigenous communities and all communities in that bidding process and have them participate in what that model and that framework will look like, we're going to continue to have those loopholes through which people will have the opportunity to somehow sneak in to gain some of the access to those dollars that rightfully should go to the rights holders and the first peoples of this land, to indigenous people.
Thank you for your question.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
We're moving on to Mr. Baldinelli.
If we can remember, though, this is about a women's entrepreneurship strategy and how we can improve it as we move forward, I gather.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
No, you don't need to. Thank you very much. I just want to make sure we stay focused.
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
I believe it's incredibly important, so I have a point of order.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
To your last comment, I believe that's debate. What you're mentioning is contributing to the debate on this. I would agree with my colleagues that the questions we pose in this place, particularly when it comes to who can access the fund we're talking about today.... That was the question I was posing.
If your comment was directed at me....
It's okay, as long as we make sure we can continue to have a scope in our discussion that allows indigenous people's questions and answers posed fairly included in the study.
