International Trade Committee on Nov. 20th, 2024

[The Chair (Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)), Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Welcome to meeting 127 of the Standing Committee on International Trade.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, September 16, 2024, the committee is resuming its study of Canadian women and international trade.

With us today by video conference, we have, from the National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association, Magnolia Perron, indigenous women and youth program manager; and from the Native Women's Association of Canada, Josie Nepinak, president.

Welcome to you both, and to our members.

We will start with opening remarks and then proceed with rounds of questions by members. You have up to five minutes to do your presentation.

Ms. Perron, I invite you to make an opening statement of up to five minutes, please. The floor is yours.

[Magnolia Perron, Indigenous Women and Youth Program Manager, National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association]

Thank you.

Good afternoon, members of committee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today.

My name is Magnolia Perron. I'm the indigenous women and youth program manager at the National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association, NACCA. It is an honour to be here today to discuss the importance of supporting indigenous women entrepreneurs and the programs that help them succeed.

NACCA is the umbrella organization for a network of over 50 indigenous financial institutions, IFIs, across Canada. Over the last 35 years, these institutions have provided more than $3.3 billion in loans to small and medium-sized enterprises in indigenous communities. These loans have supported more than 53,000 indigenous entrepreneurs, and we're proud to say that NACCA's board of directors is 100% indigenous, reflecting our commitment to uplifting and empowering indigenous communities.

In 2022, NACCA launched its indigenous women’s entrepreneur program, or IWE program, which was developed in partnership with Indigenous Services Canada. The program was designed specifically to address the unique barriers that indigenous women face when starting or growing their businesses. This includes access to capital, training and mentorship. Through this program, women have access to dedicated business support officers, regular workshops, and microloans to help them launch or expand their businesses. To date, the IWE program has supported more than 4,000 indigenous women entrepreneurs by providing advisory services and approving more than 400 loans. Many of the women we support are new to business ownership, and the training and confidence-building opportunities are absolutely essential for moving them forward with their ideas. This is not just about providing financial assistance; it's about building community, creating a support network, and ensuring that indigenous women entrepreneurs have the tools, resources and knowledge they need to thrive.

One such success story is that of Emilie McKinney, an Anishinabe entrepreneur from Swan Lake First Nation. Emilie has built a thriving business manufacturing jingle cones, which are a significant cultural item used in jingle dresses. Through her business, she now supplies over 109 stores across North America and has expanded her reach globally, exporting her products to countries like France, Sweden and South Korea. This success was made possible by the access to business support, mentorship and financing through the IWE program. Emilie's story is just one example of how this program is transforming the lives of indigenous women, helping them turn their cultural heritage into a globally recognized business.

The IWE program is a critical part of NACCA's ongoing efforts to reduce the barriers indigenous women face in the business world. However, as you can imagine, there is still much work to be done. Indigenous women remain one of the most under-represented groups in entrepreneurship and business ownership in Canada. We continue to face challenges, such as limited access to capital, training and networks. This is why investments in programs like the IWE program are so essential. Long-term support is crucial to sustaining and expanding the impact of these initiatives, not only for the women involved but for the broader economic growth of indigenous communities across Canada. Supporting indigenous women entrepreneurs is an investment in the future of our communities, in job creation and in the resilience of our cultural economies.

In closing, I want to emphasize that this work requires ongoing collaboration and investment. As we've seen with the IWE program, when indigenous women are given the right resources, they don't just succeed but lead, innovate and create opportunities for others in their communities.

Thank you for your time today and for the opportunity to speak on behalf of NACCA and the women entrepreneurs we are proud to support.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thanks very much, Ms. Perron.

Ms. Nepinak, you have up to five minutes, please.

[Josie Nepinak, President, Native Women's Association of Canada]

Good afternoon. Thank you so much for having me as part of this discussion today.

My name is Josie Nepinak. I am Anishinabe ikwe, originally from Treaty No. 4 territory. I'm also the president of the Native Women's Association of Canada. I'm very pleased to be invited to participate in the discussion.

Entrepreneurship for indigenous women is critical, as it creates a pathway to financial independence and effectively empowers indigenous women, girls and 2-spirit individuals. NWAC has done tremendous work in this area, as it is one of our huge policy areas. What we have found—this is from some of the stats—is that 22,245 indigenous women are self-employed, making a 46% increase from 15,000 in the year 2011. That is through the national household survey.

We also found that, despite some of the increases, indigenous women face challenges in accessing capital and securing financial business opportunities. We found that indigenous women often self-fund their business enterprises and usually rely on their personal savings as their main source of financing due to lack of capital. Indigenous women often self-fund because of their lack of knowledge, or the lack of access. Sometimes it has to do with lack of confidence in approaching financial institutions, and aversion to debt. For instance, the Atlantic Policy Congress of First Nations Chiefs Secretariat found that the main source of start-up funding for first nations women was their personal savings. Additionally, 16% had no funding at all, and 89% did not use any government or other support programs to start their businesses.

Some of the barriers include lack of access to financing—as I mentioned earlier—and maintaining a work-life balance. As primary caregivers, indigenous women are often sole parents and may be caring for their parents, grandchildren or other family members. There is certainly sexism and gender bias. We experience sexism at a higher rate and are often not regarded as seriously as men. It's often been shared that men are given preferential treatment in communities, as well. There's often a lack of support and training within the communities, particularly in rural and remote communities, where services are not available to them in terms of business workshops. There may be no child care available.

Another issue is the Indian Act. The Indian Act creates obstacles for indigenous people who want to start a business on their reserve. It could restrict access. It complicates ownership and transfers, and it discriminates against women, limiting their ability to secure financing and business opportunities.

We want to say that indigenous women have a significant impact within families, communities and economies with successful businesses. Building on their strengths, indigenous women can increase returns to the economy, create and provide jobs, and enrich communities.

Some key points we've come upon are...worthy investments. Indigenous women are often seen as a risk. However, they have proven to be worth the risk. Indian Business Corporation loaned a total of $18.6 million to indigenous women, and only 5% had loan writeoffs. In comparison, it loaned $55.6 million to indigenous men, and 18% had loan writeoffs. Indigenous women conduct research and collect the right information prior to starting a business. They also utilize more business support services, such as grant applications, financial coaching and tax filing, compared with men.

Because I have limited time, I want to tell you a couple of stories.

NWAC supports programs and services for indigenous women, girls and 2S and gender-diverse peoples and advocates for their right for economic inclusion through employment, entrepreneurship, education and training.

In doing so, NWAC has established two overarching goals. One is to advocate to the Government of Canada to increase funding and entrepreneurship, training, education and the number of organizations led by indigenous women and girls and 2S+ people to develop flexible and innovative education and/or training for accessibility in urban, rural and remote communities, where indigenous people reside.

NWAC has addressed funding gaps and has supported economic programs for indigenous women. Our ongoing programs include "be the drum". This is an entrepreneurship program of indigenous women across the country. Currently, we have hundreds of women who have subscribed to this program.

In the program, we host aboriginal women's entrepreneurship workshop conferences. We do some coaching around business development, management and entrepreneurship skills as well. We also do an ISET program, which offers scholarships and training for indigenous women—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Ms. Nepinak, my apologies for interrupting, but could you close, please, for the moment?

[Josie Nepinak]

Yes, I will close for now.

Investing in indigenous women in this country is the way to go. The more that we can advocate and have these conversations the better, as it's a very worthwhile venture and investment for the future.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We will move on to members' questions.

Ms. Gray has the floor for six minutes, please.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today and explaining the work that you do in your communities.

I have a few questions that I'd like to ask both witnesses. I'll ask them and then go back and forth between both of you, if that's okay.

First, Global News reported that it was “an open secret within Ottawa's procurement community that non-Indigenous companies have been finding ways to get around the program's rules” to access the billions in annual contracts meant for indigenous businesses.

Conservatives and others have been raising the alarm bells on this fraud within the indigenous procurement programs. These could be lost opportunities for indigenous companies, including women and companies that you represent.

We now know that this was true. Are you concerned that the government didn't address this even though there were warning signs on this?

I'll ask Magnolia Perron first.

[Magnolia Perron]

Thank you, Tracy, for your question.

This is a topic that our organization, NACCA, and our CEO, Shannin Metatawabin, have been bringing forward very recently to address the procurement issue of indigeneity.

I think it is concerning that these opportunities have been taken advantage of by companies that are not truly indigenous-owned and -controlled. I think that for the communities and entrepreneurs we represent, part of what we try to do is ensure that the entrepreneurs we're supporting are in fact indigenous. Through our network of indigenous financial institutions, we do a verification process and do our due diligence to ensure the entrepreneurs accessing our programming and loans and grants are in fact indigenous.

What I'd like to end with is that it should be indigenous communities, indigenous right holders, overseeing that verification of who in fact is an indigenous business.

Thank you.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you.

Josie Nepinak is next.

[Josie Nepinak]

Thank you so much for that question.

I think it's a very, very important question, particularly as we know from the news now that there are issues. I believe that there have to be better regulations around the identification of who is an authentic indigenous business owner and to have that heavily regulated and scrutinized as well.

I say this because it is certainly an economic loss and opportunity for all indigenous people, but particularly for indigenous women. As I mentioned earlier, they are often the lone home-givers and we need to ensure that they become a part of that business. I would say that we need greater regulations and scrutiny, overseen by...or a committee of indigenous people. It's not enough to say, “Well, I live at a first nation, so that makes me indigenous.” It has to be much stronger and better regulated.

Thank you.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you very much for that.

We know the Liberal government had to remove 1,100 non-indigenous-owned businesses from the indigenous business directory after the investigation by Global News.

We also know the Liberal Minister of Employment's company, Global Health Imports, said it was a wholly indigenous-owned company while bidding on federal contracts. The minister previously identified himself as indigenous, and the Liberal Party had said that he was indigenous, but now he admits that he's not and we know he is stepping down.

Do actions like those of that minister and his former company set a bad example that companies shouldn't expect consequences if they're caught and not being honest when they're filling out applications?

We'll go first to Magnolia Perron.

[Magnolia Perron]

I think this goes back to what Josie shared about there needing to be scrutiny when these examples of fraudulent indigenous businesses come to light. It's important that we hold people accountable. I think that's what's going to build back trust with indigenous communities and indigenous entrepreneurs, and address some of the challenges we're facing in the procurement process and in working with indigenous rights holders and indigenous communities to identify those that are true indigenous businesses.

It's the way forward. We really need that accountability and scrutiny that we spoke about.

Thank you.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you.

Josie Nepinak, we have about 20 seconds.

[Josie Nepinak]

There has to be a vetting process prior to an application from the individuals who are claiming to have an indigenous background, and we have to go through a screening of some sort to show that they are actually a part of the indigenous community. To do that, a strong, indigenous community overseeing it would be an option.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to Ms. Fortier for six minutes, please.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Madame Chair.

Thank you so much for being here today. We decided to extend this study because we wanted to listen to indigenous voices and make sure that you were part of this study. I'm hopeful that we will have great recommendations to encourage indigenous women to participate in international trade and continue to do business across the nation.

My questions are really to help us see how we can engage indigenous women and make sure they have the platform to be able to do some trade internationally. I was wondering if you know how the women entrepreneurship strategy is helpful in bringing light and support for women to do this.

I'll start with Madame Perron. First, I understand that NACCA received over $1.2 million to support indigenous women. Maybe that is an example you could share of how it is helping or what else we could do to support.

[Magnolia Perron]

Yes. Thank you for your question.

The women entrepreneurship strategy has been critical for our organization and many others to advance initiatives to support women entrepreneurship broadly and, of course, for us indigenous women entrepreneurs.

In addition to the $1.2 million, we've received money to help us do some research and develop role model profiles of indigenous women who have successfully started businesses. We've developed a microloan fund framework so we can support women through microfinance. We've also developed training internally for our network using the gender-based analysis plus framework, the GBA+ tool, so that we can look at our own policies and practices to see where we can be more inclusive to indigenous women and other gender-diverse folks. We also deliver the women entrepreneurship loan fund that was part of the WES, and that is helping indigenous women access capital to build and grow their business.

We have two funds. With our IWE microloan fund, women can access loans of up to $20,000, so that's really supporting women who are just starting out. Often, for new businesses, we found with the women entrepreneurship loan fund that women are able to level up and then access a slightly larger fund through that program—$50,000—to help them grow their business and expand their opportunities.

Thank you.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

Madam Nepinak, would you like to answer? I'm not sure if your organization has received funds or not under WES.

[Josie Nepinak]

No, we haven't, but I strongly believe that the conversation we're having today needs to continue on different levels and that the continuing knowledge, awareness and building of relationships with indigenous women is part of the process.

You know, when I was considering this, I was thinking that this is a fairly new concept as well for many indigenous women. Our history has been based on bartering and trade for many years. I've seen it in my lifetime through my own family communities as well. I think it's important to note that NWAC continues to do the advocacy and to come to those policy tables and make suggestions around creating greater access, opportunities, funding and resources, and in some cases wraparound services and supports. When women are starting out, they need the child care, the education, the work and everything that's required to set that business off.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Can you confirm that the government should continue to invest in the women entrepreneurship strategy? If so, is there anything else we should be focusing on to make sure that there is more participation of indigenous women?

Ms. Nepinak.

[Josie Nepinak]

Yes. I totally agree. I believe there should be continued investment and research in terms of looking at the outcomes, the resources and the successes that are made through this program.

Thank you.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Madam Perron.

[Magnolia Perron]

Yes, I would say so. I would like to see a continued investment in WES as a strategy. We've been delivering our IWE program over the last three years. We just did an evaluation. One of the findings really just spoke to how we haven't fully realized the impact of our investment yet. For indigenous women, it goes back to the confidence and to the capacity development that's required. We need to make that investment for the long term if we want to see these women be successful in starting and growing and maintaining their businesses. I think we're very early in, and it requires more investment.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Just quickly, do you have any indigenous women participating in international trade? Could you send us some successful examples?