International Trade Committee on Nov. 25th, 2024

[Arlene Dickinson]

I would be happy to.

Thank you very much to the committee for hearing me out and for your questions. I really appreciate the opportunity.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

We will await a response. If you could send it to the clerk, your responses will be distributed to the committee.

Thank you very much.

We'll go back to Mr. Sheehan.

[Terry Sheehan, Liberal, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thanks again to all the presenters. This is very, very informative.

I would like to turn to Helen Bobiwash, who is from northern Ontario.

I'm from Sault Ste. Marie, the traditional territory of Garden River, Batchewana First Nation and the Métis people, home of Turtle Island and Bawating.

Recently, we've been working closely with first nations and entrepreneurs as it relates to environmental opportunities and businesses that are being developed by the first nations in the area, including a $747,000 announcement we just recently did to protect the flora and fauna of Lake Superior, Lake Huron and St. Marys River, like the bats up in the Missanabie Cree area.

The reason I bring that up is that it's absolutely, critically important, because we have a Great Lakes fishery. You have to remember that the area where I settled and my ancestors settled was the traditional fishing grounds for many people who came from all over what is currently the United States and Canada to fish. When they were there, they used to trade. It was just natural. You're there, so you start doing business and trading.

What are the things we can continue to do to strengthen those things, such as the fisheries that are done on Lake Michigan, Lake Superior and up in Agawa and those areas, as well as other things we can do using FedNor as a tool, which is a regional economic development agency?

[Helen Bobiwash]

Thank you for your question. I spend a lot of time in Sault Ste. Marie, so I'm happy to be here with you today.

As far as the fisheries are concerned and the Great Lakes, the Great Lakes are the heart of mother earth, and Turtle Island is really important to us. I look to the model of the Coastal Guardians that exists in B.C. I know that there's some federal funding that's starting to come available for, I'll say, indigenous environmental guardians, whether it's for the land or the water, but more needs to be done to recognize the knowledge and the expertise of indigenous people with respect to the environment. I believe that guardians program really needs to be fully funded around the Great Lakes, a combination of federal and provincial funding, to really support the life of that water.

I also believe in additional investment in training. It's STEM, right? It's science and technology. Indigenous people still aren't achieving the same outcomes as non-indigenous people when it comes to post-secondary education. If we can access additional resources to be able to study those fields and to show that, in addition to our indigenous knowledge around the environment, we also carry Western knowledge, then it brings more credibility, unfortunately, within the ecosystem for environmental scientists.

[Terry Sheehan, Liberal, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

There are other things as well. FedNor is now with Indigenous Services. I know the minister talks a lot about economic reconciliation. How important are regional economic development agencies in helping what would appear to be a very thriving indigenous entrepreneurship culture? I've seen so many businesses that have started up in the last few years. Could you make a few comments on that growth?

[Helen Bobiwash]

I am very familiar with FedNor, being in Sudbury and having worked with the first nations. I feel that those regional development organizations are super important, because they understand the economics in the region. They're closer to the communities, have a better understanding of the communities, and often develop better relationships because they're there more often than other program staff. I've seen it with FedNor. I've also seen it in Atlantic Canada with the regional agency there. I think it really comes down to that ability to develop stronger relationships and understanding.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Baldinelli, please, you have five minutes.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being with us this afternoon.

It's interesting that almost all of the witnesses have spoken about the difficulties and have discussed the challenges with regard to access to capital.

I want to begin with Ms. Oyelade from the Casa Foundation.

You mentioned earlier in your testimony that you had been in investment banking. What we've seen is that, globally, women-led start-ups receive just 2.3% of venture capital funding. How can we scale up our programs to address any kinds of barriers in venture funding for women-led businesses?

[Dr. Olutoyin Oyelade]

Thank you, again. Thank you, Madam Chair, for the question.

For me, personally, I believe that scaling those hurdles will include a certain set of actions. One is the fact that venture studios will become more applicable to women, where you create a platform, ecosystem platforms, where people have, women have, direct access, that is specifically curated for women. Currently, the structure is not so. It's general, and the barriers are because of the bias, the issues we've spoken to here today.

The other witnesses have alluded to the fact that barriers exist because people are so comfortable in dealing with our male counterparts, and that's just the truth. It's there. They enjoy that, so if you curate specifically venture studios or venture labs, equity venture capital studios, I think that will be a major solution. Why is that so? At those studios, you have access to different resources, mentorship with like-minded people, people watching your back.

Women have difficulty networking and creating their own board members sometimes, because of the domestic family-related issues. At those venture studios, it's where you have people, like-minded people, gathered, and you can choose your board members from there. You can seek mentorship from there. They become accountability partners to you because there's peer-to-peer accountability, because you are within the same group. It's easier than when you now mingle with the men.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

That would be to your earlier point in your testimony, talking about those ecosystem platforms that need to be created. If you had a recommendation, would you discuss possible policy changes that the government could consider to address that venture capital by addressing issues such as that?

[Dr. Olutoyin Oyelade]

Absolutely, I would. It would be an adjustment to the existing policy, perhaps, or the existing strategy that guides the entire operationalization of the women entrepreneurship strategy. I talked about creating venture studios, creating perhaps an endowment fund. I'm not sure what you call it in terms of policy. However, those things will go ahead and give some assurance, some comfort level, to women who have actually secured initial funding levels to know that their continued sustainability is guaranteed.

Yes, they've secured the first level of funding, $5,000, $10,000, $50,000, and so on, and they've been able to set up their businesses for the next two years, but what happens after two years? That's why they keep going down. It's because, after two years, the long-term sustainability of those businesses is no longer guaranteed. At the ecosystem labs and studios is where they can also easily access clients. You know that sometimes it's difficult for women to network in the evening like our male counterparts: They can't go golfing at 1 a.m.; they can't secure mentorship with their male counterparts, because perhaps a spouse might get upset, so at the venture labs secured for women is where they get mentorship from role models who have done successfully well.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you for that. I just want to build on some of the testimony of other witnesses with regard to the capital gains tax. Some of these capital gains tax reforms have raised concerns among women entrepreneurs. How might these challenges disproportionately affect women in international trade, and what would be your recommendations to mitigate potential negative impacts?

[Dr. Olutoyin Oyelade]

Yes, there's no denying the fact that there will be major impacts on revenues and so on, because women are currently struggling to actually build revenues and so on from the businesses they manage. Because of the limited access to capital and so on, and the limited revenues that are being generated currently, if you impose another set of taxes on those, that would actually negatively impact the current levels of business.

I believe, then, that there are other ways that we're currently talking about to incentivize women to do business globally, internationally and so on. I think those will be the direct focus, or it will be my own recommendation to focus on those areas and perhaps create policies that would possibly reduce the amount or reduce the levels of taxes that will be imposed on the businesses that are not yet flourishing, instead of damaging the little that they have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We go now to Mr. Badawey for five minutes, please.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

What I would like to do today with the witnesses, and I appreciate your coming out and giving your insights, is receive actionable insights. This meeting is not our meeting. This is your meeting, and we have an analyst here who we depend on to take your insights and, of course, make that as part of the final report. Of course, recommendations will come out of that, and we would expect a response from the minister.

I'm going to throw out an open-ended question to all of you to receive those insights that will enable the analyst to come up with some of those recommendations.

Given the challenges faced by women entrepreneurs in accessing international markets, and this is all about Canadian women and international trade, with that, accessing markets such as through financing and trade networks, what targeted measures or programs do you all believe could help reduce these barriers and enable more equitable participation of women-led businesses in global trade?

I'll start off with you, Ms. Oyelade, if you want to go first.

[Dr. Olutoyin Oyelade]

Making some adjustments to the current strategy is important, I believe, in the following areas.

The venture studios I mentioned is one.

Secondly, culturally tailor the type of education. Everybody talks about digital and financial literacy programs and so on, but the way people understand this.... These programs should be different, one from the other, depending on the culture you come from. They should be culturally tailored to the needs of the women. What I understand to be “financial literacy” is general, for sure, but it might be different from how somebody from Asia understands it. For me, financial literacy is pulling together funds and making sure my family succeeds with that. Sometimes it's not general, as you might expect. It could be curated to the needs of the women.

We're talking about capacity building for women. Women are not incapable of running these businesses, I must mention. I had to write an article on that—“What Is Wrong with Women?”—for TED. The issue is that expectations of women are different. First and foremost is family. While the family is being managed on those ecosystem platforms I alluded to, business is also being done on the other side. Businesses are done more successfully by women when they know their families are okay. It's general to women. It's the natural order and who we are. If we're able to do that and get funding in the process, we become more productive.

I will quickly make a point regarding what the honourable gentleman Blake said.

I think that what gets measured is what gets done. If we're able to identify some specific commodities we can tie to that and say, “Here are the major items we are known for, so can we have women in business or trade who can replicate and take this globally for us?”, it might be another way to look at it—alluding to some of the points he made. I think we should create products specifically and say, “These are some of the targets for years one to four. Let's take this international.” They are much needed—tech and so on.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

I want to get to the other two before—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you.

If there are any more comments you have, please send them in to us, because that's exactly what we're looking for. We can make it part of your testimony. Even comments you send in after the meeting will be part of your testimony.

Thank you for that.

Ms. Bobiwash.

[Helen Bobiwash]

Thank you.

I'm going to focus on two.

One is staff training internally within the federal government. Make sure they all have indigenous cultural training, so they better understand the indigenous experience. Also, provide that trauma-informed training I expressed earlier, in my opening statement.

The other one I want to touch on is this: Earlier, there was discussion about women-owned businesses not having the longevity of those of men. In order to have that longevity, we need some certainty about available funding and financing, and what the ecosystem is that we're operating in. I would say the programming also needs to be established on a longer-term basis. There has to be longevity to the programming, not just a three- or five-year budget commitment. It needs to be ongoing, so there is some certainty for the agencies supporting those women entrepreneurs.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Oliver.

[Kim Oliver]

Yes, I'd like to echo what Helen Bobiwash said.

Training is important. It's important that people who work with indigenous groups have the trauma-informed training to understand. That's one of the barriers we have to deal with in order to move ahead and get ahead.

I would also like to make a written submission to enhance my answer to that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Please do.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Ms. Oliver.

Thank you to all of the witnesses. As I said, if you have an opportunity, take some time and put a paper together to send to the committee. That way, we can add it to your testimony.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Savard-Tremblay has two and a half minutes.