International Trade Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2024

[Emmanuelle Lamoureux]

I just want to make sure that I understand this question correctly. Are you asking if we'll be able to...if the EU will be able to attain its objective if we—

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

No, I mean that the EU and the U.K., and maybe Australia tomorrow and Japan the day after that, are moving toward this, which is a good thing, but with the U.S. not considering this, along with the global south, especially the Indo-Pacific region, which is the fastest-growing market and where our focus is, what outcome do you expect from that?

[Emmanuelle Lamoureux]

If the objective is to level the playing field, I think they may succeed in that objective. If the objective is to reduce global emissions worldwide, of course not having some of the largest players on board will be a challenge, so I would say, partially.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

How difficult is it to measure these emissions, the carbon embedded in products? Suppose we get something from Nigeria or Vietnam. How difficult is it for us to measure it?

[Emmanuelle Lamoureux]

It can be challenging. That's something that the EU is recognizing. That's why they are allowing for two methods to report on those carbon emissions. The first one, which is the most accurate one, is to report on the actual emission data. But it's also resource-intensive; it requires some data—

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

The solution is not near-term.

[Emmanuelle Lamoureux]

I was going to say there's also an option for a default value for countries or exporters who many not have the research capacity available.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Do you think you're going to hear from our trading partners that we are using this as a protectionist measure?

[Emmanuelle Lamoureux]

Some partners have raised concerns. It's hard for them to be definitive, because the EU CBAM is not in place yet and the legislation is still under development. However, certainly several countries are very much engaged on this.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

We have seen Russia weaponize trade. We have also seen the U.S. currently using the trade tariffs as a weapon against what they see as a problem with their immigration.

Where do you think it will all lead to?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Give a very brief answer.

[Emmanuelle Lamoureux]

That's a tough question.

I think we need to be mindful of our international trade obligations in this challenging context that you described and avoid, obviously, a race to the bottom.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We now go to Mr. Savard-Tremblay for two and a half minutes.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I have a quick question.

Ms. Lamoureux, you spoke earlier about tariffs on China.

Is anything being considered on the Canadian side at this time? Is there a plan to ensure that countries without internal measures can export their products? We're talking about an adjustment, but how do we make that happen?

[Emmanuelle Lamoureux]

You're saying “products without internal measures”—

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Products from countries without domestic measures, such as Canada.

[Emmanuelle Lamoureux]

I see.

Canada has internal measures, in the sense that there is a price on carbon.

However, in the case of countries that don't have them, that will be taken into account at the European border, where relevant data will be requested. In this case, exporters from those countries would have to pay a higher amount than those that have produced less carbon or have already paid for the carbon that was consumed in the production of the goods.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Has anything been thought of on the Canadian side?

[Michael Mosier]

I think for Canada, when we think about a border carbon adjustment mechanism and we do our analysis here, this is something that would be taken into consideration.

I think you were speaking with respect to the recent surtaxes on China, if I have that correct. Canada would have the option, I suppose, of looking at products that were imported from other countries and considering its tools. Section 53 of the Customs Tariff is one of those tools, although I'm not sure if.... There would certainly be other factors to take into consideration.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

On the U.S. side, we know there will be a new president. He wants to cancel a number of environmental measures. During his first term, he abolished several laws. At the same time, the Environmental Protection Agency, as recently as April, wanted to force many coal plants to capture at least 90% of their emissions, or even shut down within eight years. Those two positions are quite different.

Based on your discussions with U.S. officials, should we fear a change in carbon pricing on the American side?

[Emmanuelle Lamoureux]

Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to answer that question. I'm not involved in discussions with the United States on those topics.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you.

We now go to Mr. Desjarlais, for two and a half minutes.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I've given notice of a motion that I'd like to move at this point. I move:

Given that:

a. the Truth and Reconciliation Commission Calls to Action include creating economic opportunities for Indigenous Canadians so they can fully participate in society;

b. Canada, along with Australia, New Zealand, and Taiwan, endorsed the Indigenous Peoples Economic Trade Cooperation Agreement (IPETCA) on December 10, 2021, which “acknowledges the importance of Indigenous economic empowerment through inclusive approaches to trade and working together to identify and remove the barriers that Indigenous businesses face when participating in international trade”; and

c. it is unclear how this agreement has been implemented;

the committee undertake a study of no fewer than 5 meetings to study how IPETCA can serve as a framework to improve cooperation and trade between Canada’s Indigenous peoples and Indigenous peoples across the globe, and that the Minister of Export Promotion, International Trade and Economic Development and the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations be invited to appear as witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

You had given us the notice of motion. You've now introduced it.

We are doing committee business on Wednesday afternoon in committee. Would you be okay to defer the debate and discussion until that time?

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Do my colleagues have questions about it? We could go to a vote now if you're already prepared. We could just dispose of it.