International Trade Committee on Dec. 13th, 2022

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here.

I want to talk about critical minerals. I am, of course, pushing to have phosphate added to the critical minerals list, mainly because of lithium iron phosphate batteries. The response I get from the people at the Minister of Natural Resources' office is that public servants review the list every two or three years, and that nothing can happen until then.

Wouldn't you say that amounts to a lack of leadership and flexibility, Mr. Robertson? I'd like to hear your thoughts.

[Colin Robertson]

I'm not familiar with how the list is devised, but two or three years seems rather extreme.

Again, pressure from parliamentarians usually has an effect on bureaucrats, who may have a means of doing things. In my experience, they respond appropriately. So too do elected representatives making the case.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

My next question is for you, Ms. Green.

When the fall economic statement came out, your association called it a step in the right direction, but said that a lot more work was needed to close the gap created by the IRA.

What does Canada need to do to close the gap? An effort like that would probably make Canada more attractive to foreign investors.

[Jennifer Green]

As I mentioned, the oversight of biogas and RNG in the fall economic statement, as part of the suite of clean technologies in the investment tax credit, was significant for our members. It was noticed. We received a lot of feedback on that.

Generally, as mentioned already, for Canada to step forward with a response that looks at measures similar to an investment or production tax credit, it has to establish those as soon as possible. This would create the conditions, as we heard today, that can make the North American market an attractive market for investment. When we can see some commonality in our support for clean technologies, it is very positive. If we don't have alignment, it will create more of a patchwork approach and more confusion for any foreign investment.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

That's an interesting point.

Ms. Green, you said that Canada didn't have time on its side, when it came to closing the gap created by the IRA.

Why is it that Canada is so behind? Why are we always trailing behind our neighbour to the south? They say it's never too late, but is that really true? Can we still do anything to make up the ground we've lost?

[Jennifer Green]

I think the discussion we're having as part of this study is a testament to the interest of this group. It's never too late. We will be looking at where our investments can best be placed for our biogas and RNG projects.

I believe we very much have a dichotomy right now. We need to move quickly to provide provisions that can attract as much investment to Canada as we can.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Again—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Please keep it very short.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

I don't know whether I'll be able to keep my next question short.

How many seconds do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have 35 seconds.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

On November 18, Ms. Green, a Parkland Corporation executive stressed that, when compared with their U.S. counterparts, Canadian producers of biofuels and low-carbon fuels were currently at a competitive disadvantage because of imbalances between government incentives in the two jurisdictions. He said he did not think that Canada had any comparable incentives at this time.

What impact could the IRA have on Canadian producers of biofuels and low-carbon fuels?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You got the question in, Mr. Martel, but now we have no time for the answer.

Can we possibly get a very brief answer?

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Make it short and sweet.

[Jennifer Green]

I'd be happy to provide a follow-up to the committee to accommodate you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

That's wonderful, Ms. Green. Thank you very much. We appreciate that.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Ms. Dhillon, you have five minutes, please.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to our witnesses for being here.

I'll start with you, Mr. Auer.

With both the domestic and global use of concrete and cement continuing to rapidly increase, what steps are being taken by the Cement Association of Canada to ensure that you can continue to meet production needs? How do you think our government could help you in doing so?

[Adam Auer]

We have already put in place a unique collaboration with the government through the Department of Innovation, Science and Economic Development to develop a road map to net zero, which is, as I think you're suggesting, a critical step to maintaining competitiveness in our sector in a global economy that is rapidly decarbonizing and rapidly putting significant scrutiny on heavy-emitting sectors such as ours. I think it's the tools we're talking about today that will attract foreign investment into our industry in Canada. They will play a critical role in positioning our sector here in Canada to continue to thrive.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

That's perfect. Thank you.

Madam Green, how can renewable gas play a role in such sectors as industry and freight, which are typically considered more difficult to decarbonize?

[Jennifer Green]

Biogas and renewable natural gas provide multi-faceted uses as energy sources and fuels. RNG is currently being used as a form of transportation fuel—a drop-in transportation fuel for fleets that have converted from diesel to compressed natural gas.

In the industrial sector, we also see a play for renewable natural gas to be used as a feedstock in industrial processes. In that way, we're seeing opportunities for the decarbonization of industrial processes by the use of RNG.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

That's perfect. Thank you so much.

Mr. Robertson, on the topic of the U.S. mid-term election, how could mid-term election results affect President Biden's ability to introduce bills similar to the IRA? Do you anticipate that this is something he could do?

[Colin Robertson]

Well, it's going to be more difficult now with the House in Republican hands, because I think you're going to see the Republicans launch a series of investigations into Hunter Biden and the retreat from Afghanistan. I don't think they have any interest in giving President Biden any more legislative achievements as we move towards 2024. Effectively, that campaign has begun, as we've seen with former president Trump making his declaration.

I think it's going to be a bit difficult for the administration to achieve new, big legislative packages—not impossible, but difficult.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

What do you believe we could do to help alleviate that situation or to facilitate it in any way?

[Colin Robertson]

Well, our interest is always basically to prevent actions that could do harm to Canada. A lack of legislative action probably means that we end up with the status quo, but it does not reduce my argument that we should be making the case every day—including by having members of Parliament go down to Washington to see their counterparts—that Canada and the United States working together is a much more effective partnership than the U.S. taking actions that cause Canadians harm, whether they intend it or not.