International Trade Committee on Feb. 13th, 2023

[Sheri Meyerhoffer]

I'd just say that we are taking steps to be more accessible and to have a longer reach. We are engaging with a consulting company to help us identify the networks and the different civil society organizations that exist in the various countries to help us to access down to the local level—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I'm sorry to interrupt you. I don't want to seem rude, but I don't really have much time.

I think the response already has some of my colleagues laughing.

I'll again speak to the EDC representatives.

You heard the representative from the Office of the CORE tell us outright that it is impossible for that organization to ensure that victims of human rights violations file complaints with their own organization.

Can your organization therefore know whether or not you are funding mining companies currently flying the Canadian flag and violating human rights?

How is that possible when even the ombudsperson, who is responsible for those investigations, is unable to produce any reports on those Canadian mining companies?

I look forward to your response.

[Rachel Guthrie]

Thank you for raising this concern. It's an important question and one that we take very seriously.

EDC is international risk experts. We have our due diligence processes. My colleague, Sophie, has a team of 70 people whose role is to assess risk. When we are concerned about a situation, we will actually put boots on the ground to have a look and to verify the circumstances.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I see that it's a very serious process. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Cannings, you have six minutes, please.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

I'd like to thank the witnesses here today.

I'm going to start with Ms. Meyerhoffer. I'm going to follow up on the line of questioning of Monsieur Brunelle-Duceppe.

Just to get it clear, you've only heard two complaints about mining companies in four years.

[Sheri Meyerhoffer]

Just to be clear, while I opened up the doors to the CORE in 2019, we were a brand new organization. We had to build out our procedures and get our technology going so that we could put up our complaints portal. That happened in March of 2021, so it's been open for two years for complaints.

There have been two admissible complaints received from mining companies.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Did you say those complaints were from China?

[Sheri Meyerhoffer]

That's correct.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

You've heard no complaints from Central America, South America or Africa.

[Sheri Meyerhoffer]

We are aware of issues that are going on and we're monitoring them. We hear about issues, but we have not received complaints to act on.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

That is my concern here. When do you decide to act? Do you wait for local indigenous groups to complain, or do you take proactive steps?

One example is Barrick Gold, which has the Veladero mine in Argentina. It's coincidentally owned jointly by Shandong Gold of China. They've had three or more major spills of cyanide, mercury and arsenic into the local rivers. Local people have been complaining. The UN special rapporteur on human rights and the environment, David Boyd, who's from the University of British Columbia, put out a letter on this.

I wonder, does that get you...? What do you do when you hear about that, and why haven't you heard about it? Shouldn't you be reaching out to these people and saying you'd like to hear the details on this? It seems remarkable that the United Nations has taken the time to put out a report, yet you have not done anything on this, apparently.

[Sheri Meyerhoffer]

We have talked to a number of companies at various times about the situations they're dealing with. We've provided advice. We monitor all the issues. We are just as concerned as anybody else out there in regard to what's going on. Some of these matters, as you know, have gone to the courts. They've chosen to go there. Others might be going to the NCP—the national contact point for complaints—or other places.

However, we're closely monitoring them. We are involved with the Mining Association of Canada and PDAC, talking about areas of study where we could provide some value in working with companies to help them do a better job and be more responsible.

The only things we have are two complaints. Right now, we're prioritizing our complaints, and there are two for mining companies. We can also do an ombud-initiated review, which we might do in the future. We can also do a study. We have been in discussion with industry associations on that for a while now.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

You said some are going to the courts, and that going to the courts is more difficult and expensive. That's why we created this office, I think, in the first place.

When I talk to parliamentarians from Chile or Colombia, the first thing they bring up is Canadian mining companies and what's going on in their countries. I'm wondering what went wrong with this process and how we can fix it.

[Sheri Meyerhoffer]

Don't forget you heard testimony that with respect to mining situations, Canadian civil society organizations are not encouraging the impacted individuals and communities they come into contact with to bring their complaints to CORE. That's also one possible situation.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Why would they not suggest that? Why would they say to avoid CORE?

[Sheri Meyerhoffer]

According to their testimony, they said we need the power to compel documents. Without that, they're afraid of the potential for retaliation against impacted parties.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Without the ability to compel testimony and documents, your powers are so limited that people aren't even approaching you.

[Sheri Meyerhoffer]

There are concerns in certain situations. There aren't in all situations. As I said, we have a number of tools that are quite powerful. However, in certain situations, such as when they're worried about impacted individuals and communities, these civil society organizations are not encouraging them to come here. We can be effective, but not in some of these situations, in their opinion.

I think, as I said before in my opening remarks and in response to Mr. McKay, that we could be more impactful if we had those powers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I'm sorry. Your time is up, Mr. Cannings.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Baldinelli, you have five minutes.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being with us this morning.

I'm going to begin with Ms. Meyerhoffer from CORE.

You identified that in January 2018, the federal government announced the creation of a Canadian Ombudsperson for Responsible Enterprise, and there was also the creation of the advisory board on responsible business conduct. You indicated that the office has essentially been up and going since 2021. You set up your office in 2019.

My question to you is this: Was CORE established on a template of what other countries are doing? What are CORE's role, mandate and powers, compared to those of other countries? For example, what does China do? What does the United States do? What do some of our largest trading partners do in this regard?

[Sheri Meyerhoffer]

Thank very much for the question.

CORE is the first ombuds office of its kind in the world, so there is no model for us to look to, although there are various ombuds offices that hold governments accountable. There are administrative ombuds and various industry ombuds. There are different models that we could and have drawn from.

We have also drawn from the International Finance Corporation's Office of the Compliance Advisor Ombudsman. That is probably one of the closest ones, but it's still not exactly the same.

We have drawn from these various sources. Our process was to talk to civil society organizations, industry associations and companies, and government to figure out how best to set ourselves up, given that we're new, that we're an innovation. Canada can be really proud that we're leading in this area.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you.

In essence, you could say that we're world leaders in the whole notion of the creation of ethical business conduct abroad in Canadian mining operations, in what we expect and in how we expect our businesses to operate.