International Trade Committee on Feb. 16th, 2023

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

We could send you a legal opinion we obtained. There was a question that had been raised about Crown privileges. I don't know if that's what you're getting at.

[A voice]

It's about compliance with WTO agreements.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I will let Mr. Roche answer that question.

[Marc-André Roche]

Bill C‑282 does not question the concessions already made in the agreements. We are not changing anything at all.

Of course, the bill would limit Canada's ability to negotiate a new agreement under the WTO, if that agreement were to make new concessions.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Would there not be the fear, though? You indicated earlier that predictability is important and certainty is important, but by enacting legislation such as this, you bring unpredictability into the equation, because you may bring about challenges to what the government is doing in any of its new negotiations.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

What Mr. Roche just said is important. The bill does not affect agreements that have already been concluded. An agreement was already made at the WTO. If we ever wanted to open up a market with the United Kingdom, it is within the framework of what has already been granted that the United Kingdom should find its market share.

So the bill will apply to the next agreements, the next renegotiations. In that sense, we're doing the same thing that all the countries are doing, the people in the European Union, the Americans. We just have to decide whether or not we take supply management off the table.

If you were a negotiator, would you want to have the ability to undermine supply management up your sleeve?

Is that what you want?

Is this where you are going with your questions?

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

No, no. I'm just trying to avoid the question. For example, Niagara is home to the grape and wine sector. The government had an excise exemption. This government decided to put in an escalator clause, which brought about a challenge. We ended up losing that excise exemption under WTO rules. Now we're looking for certainty. The industry now has to be subsidized for that.

I'm trying to avoid that whole situation in which unpredictability then comes back into the equation. That was simply my question with regard to whether or not you have—yes or no—in terms of the legal opinion. You said you have. If you have, can you table the opinion that you received?

Also, trade deals are renegotiated. Would your legislation then apply to renegotiations of existing trade agreements?

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

This is indeed the case.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Yes.

Okay. I will cede my remaining 20 seconds.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Okay.

Mr. Arya, go ahead, please.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

International trade is very important to Canada. Almost two-thirds of our GDP comes from international trade. Our prosperity and the standard of living that we enjoy today are basically due to international trade.

What your bill proposes will almost kill the ability of Canada to further our international trade, not only in terms of the new trade agreements we need to negotiate but even for the existing ones. There will always be issues there that need to be looked into.

Even with our small number of Canadian farmers, we are ranked fifth largest worldwide in terms of exports. There is a tiny number of Canadian farmers.

Have you consulted with Pulse Canada, the Canola Council, the Grain Growers of Canada, the Canadian Pork Council, Cereals Canada or the Canadian Cattle Association? These are the sectors that work hard and that are the first to leverage every new international trade agreement Canada signs so we can increase exports from Canada. Have you consulted with any of them?

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

What I understand from your question is that you are against the bill. You are against protecting supply management and taking it off the table.

Is that what I am to understand from your question?

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

The Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance, which represents 90% of Canadian farmers, producers, food manufacturers and agri-food businesses that depend on trade strongly opposes Bill C-282. What do you say to its members?

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I think that is inaccurate. Provide us with that information. We will look at it and do some checking.

All the people who were with us at the press briefing last week, and they came in large numbers, were in favour of the bill. They included people from the processing sector.

I don't see exactly...

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Please speak through the chair with your comments.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Sorry, Madam Chair.

I would like to ask the witness again: 90% of the farms and agri-food businesses that are represented by the Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance say they strongly oppose Bill C-282. When I was listening to the witness's comment, Madam Chair, I heard the fluctuations and how, when it fluctuates downwards, small producers will get decimated.

The same thing applies to every single industrial and business sector, so every single sector can demand a clause like this, barring the government from negotiating anything to do with their sector when it goes in for new free trade agreement negotiations. It means that Canadian international trade has to collapse. Is that not the case?

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I don't agree with you. I think the solution we are proposing today is much simpler.

The fact that there are people who do not agree is fine with me. But I would remind you that we are talking about the people who feed us. We are talking about the people from whom consumers demand quality. People want us to bring producers closer to their plates. It doesn't seem to bother you that we are losing small and medium-sized producers. If that's the case, that is your problem.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

I apologize, Mr. Thériault, I have—

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Either the interpretation is not good or we simply do not understand each other.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

I apologize. The witness talks about people who are providing food. I am also talking about people who are providing food: Pulse Canada, the Canola Council of Canada, Grain Growers of Canada, the Canadian Pork Council and the Canadian Cattle Association. They are saying they're strongly opposed to Bill C-282. They not only provide food to Canadians; they provide food to people across the world, which is how they made Canada number five worldwide in terms of these exports. That is what I'm talking about.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Madam Chair, in the last negotiations, beef producers thought they might have access to markets. It appears they did not get that access.

We believe that we should not fall into a fool's bargain and that it is better to protect what we have in a concrete way.

We are aiming for a balance in terms of agri-food and food. It is better to bet on a balance that ensures our food security than to bet on the desire of certain beef producers to access the European market when, in the end, they do not succeed and farms in Quebec have been sacrificed in the meantime.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to Monsieur Savard-Tremblay for two and a half minutes, please.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I yield the floor to Mr. Perron.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, gentlemen, for being with us today.

I think we need to put some things in context. When we talk about people who represent producers, we have to talk about the type of production. In Canada and Quebec, there are different production models.

I would like to know, Mr. Thériault, if you are proud of your pork, grain and beef producers who export.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Absolutely.