Evidence of meeting #52 for International Trade in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was negotiations.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
My next question is for you, Mr. Lampron.
As of today, has the compensation promised as part of previous agreements been fully paid?
March 9th, 2023 / 4:10 p.m.
President, Dairy Farmers of Canada
Not all the compensation has been payed, but full payment has been promised. It's coming. However, as I said earlier, this is not a model we want for the long run.
We don't want to lose a market and then be compensated for it. We want to produce for the market. We have our infrastructure and we can always improve our efficiency. When there is no growth, it becomes more difficult to meet profitability goals.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
Are you sure all the compensation will be paid?
Nothing has been put in writing yet, and we don't know whether this will be in the next budget. At the end of the day, it's all talk so far.
4:10 p.m.
President, Dairy Farmers of Canada
It's in the economic statement that was presented in September. I do believe it will all be paid. I'm confident about that.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
Okay.
My next question is rather long and since I only have 30 seconds remaining, I'll stop here.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
You can take it; there are only 15 seconds left.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Mr. Lampron, I'm going to use these 10 seconds to ask you why a small percentage more would mean the end of the system.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kyle Seeback
I'm sorry. We're out of time.
Mr. Arya, please go ahead for six minutes.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON
In Canada, we are lucky to live in this wonderful country. We are prosperous. The prosperity of Canada comes from international trade: 60% to 65% of our GDP comes from international trade.
Many times when I meet with Canadians for various things, one of the fun things I enjoy telling them is that Canada, with its small population and tiny population of farmers, for food grains and agri-food exports, Canada is the fifth-largest in the world. That is something I'm very proud of, and I keep repeating it.
My riding is in Ottawa. Mine is a suburban bedroom community. I don't have many farms, but I'm cognizant of how much Canadian farmers and agri-food exporters contribute to Canada and how much they contribute to the prosperity that we all believe in and we all live in. I would like thank the Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance members for the hard work they have been doing.
I have some questions.
Let's come back to NAFTA or the CUSMA renegotiation at a later stage.
Right now Canada is looking at Indo-Pacific countries for future growth, because that is the area where the population is growing and the economies are growing. That's where our exports will grow. One of the countries there is Indonesia, which we're also trying to have a bilateral agreement with. They have their own palm oil there.
Another country we are negotiating with currently is India. Obviously we want a free trade agreement with India, but right now the negotiations are an early or preliminary trade agreement. Again, this is a fun fact I mention to many of my audiences many times. The biggest export from Canada to one of the biggest markets in the world, one of the growing markets in the world, India, is lentils.
Now, Mr. Darling, my question is this: If this bill becomes law, as the negotiations are going on with India, with Canada being the major exporter of lentils to India—and India also exports dairy products, I think more than 400 million dollars' worth of dairy products—do you think that it is not a real possibility that the Indian trade negotiators will use this as a tool to block the market we want India to open up for our exports?
4:15 p.m.
President, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance
Thank you for the question. It's a very good question.
That's exactly what we're concerned about and our members are concerned about. Even for countries that we're negotiating with that have no interest in supply management here in Canada, just making this law would put that on their radar. They may use other commodities we're trying to get into those countries, like lentils, as a trade bargaining chip, and we would not get as good a deal as we may have had otherwise. It's a serious concern for sure.
I might add that it's not just in agriculture. It could be steel, aluminum or forestry products.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON
Yes, we'll come to that.
Do you agree that the Asia-Pacific countries are one of the growing markets for cattle producers and for beef exports.
4:15 p.m.
President, Canadian Cattle Association
Yes, it's a market that we are 100% hungry for. When you look at the vast size of the Indo-Pacific market and what could potentially happen there....
One thing I want to remind the committee is that our sustainability in the environment and climate change is world-leading. We have room here to grow this industry with the markets that are available. Closing this market will hinder our ability to do that.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON
The argument we heard that we have to protect our dairy industry and supply management can be used by every single sector that is not export-dependent. I am so surprised that some Canadians are arguing that we should start protectionism when our entire prosperity is dependent on our ability for international trade. I am very unpleasantly surprised by this.
Indonesia is also a growing market with a huge population.
I wanted to ask Mr. Phinney and Mr. Darling quickly, if a new president comes up in the United States and he or she ends the CUSMA agreement and wants to renegotiate, if this bill becomes law, what do you think will happen with the negotiations with our largest trading partner?
Mr. Darling, you can go first. Mr. Phinney, you can finish.
4:15 p.m.
President, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance
I don't think you even need a new president in the United States for this to happen. Just as soon as this happens, it will come to their attention. CUSMA will have to be relooked at in their minds.
We could come at the bad end of the stick. This is not good.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kyle Seeback
Give a very brief answer. We're at time. Be very quick, please.
4:15 p.m.
President, Canadian Cattle Association
I will defer quickly to Mr. Laycraft.
4:15 p.m.
Dennis Laycraft Executive Vice-President, Canadian Cattle Association
First of all, thank you.
We've seen in the past, when you get into these negotiations.... We saw an unusual approach in the previous administration, when they arbitrarily started to throw tariffs around. It can become very unpredictable, but we know there will be an issue with it.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. You may be vice-chair, but today you're the chair.
I would like to say hello to all of my colleagues.
I thank all the witnesses for their evidence today.
Mr. Turp, you are an expert in international law, I believe. You have taught, you have been a professor, and you have supervised many master's theses and doctoral dissertations on these issues.
In your previous career as a member of Parliament, you worked on the making of trade deals and accountability to Parliament.
We've heard all kinds of arguments today, both for and against Bill C‑282. Among the concerns that have been raised, we are told that it could undermine the way negotiations are concluded.
As an expert on the subject, do you share that concern?