International Trade Committee on March 23rd, 2023

[Helen Dallimore, Associate Member, International Cheese Council of Canada]

To add to Joe's point, if I may, the TCA cheese letters are something that we are requesting a temporary extension on. To Joe's point, they do expire at the end of 2023. In order to continue to have stability for Canadian businesses and Canadian consumers, we are looking for a temporary extension. That doesn't allow a greater access than the access we've had previously. It's something that we're hoping to building on and not roll back from.

Certainly, for planning in 2024, it would allow continuity for Canadian business, not forgetting the fact that some of the cheese itself take nine months to mature. Cheese now being made for the Canadian market we have uncertainty for as we enter into 2024.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

I assume this wasn't a big public matter during the Brexit negotiations—that you would suddenly lose access to markets that you normally had once the U.K. was out of CETA.

[Helen Dallimore]

I think as part of the divorce agreement it was uncertain as to what would actually happen with regard to the CETA and EU access.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Okay.

I would like to turn to—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have 18 seconds remaining, Mr. Cannings.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Okay. I will just give up then.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Martel, you have three minutes, please.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being with us today and I also want to apologize for our tardiness. When we have votes, it's never easy for our witnesses.

Mr. Ruel, do you think Bill C‑282 is necessary or is compensation enough?

[Yves Ruel, Associate Executive Director, Chicken Farmers of Canada]

Thank you.

In answer to your question, I would say that the bill is clearly necessary. Compensation is not really what the producers would have chosen.

What producers want, and Mr. Klompmaker is well placed to confirm this because he is a producer, is to continue to produce and to make their businesses grow. They want a growing concern that they will be able to hand down to future generations. They want to contribute to economic development in all of Canada's regions and cities. Chicken production has an impact on urban and semi-urban regions because of the processing and high processing plants that are situated there.

That's why it so important to stop any more hits on supply management. Every kilo of product that is imported is a kilo that we are not producing in Canada and takes away grains that would otherwise be used to feed the chickens that we raise. It also means job losses within the processing industry as a whole.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Let's say that there are even more concessions. You are saying that at a certain point, we have to stop giving concessions, because the supply management system will no longer be efficient.

My colleague said something interesting: it's all well and good to state that we mustn't make any concessions, but each time that we do, we still seem able to provide financial compensation for lost revenue.

However, up to what point can we continue to concede percentage points? If we don't know exactly where that limit is, we continue to push the envelope, saying that producers are able to survive if they receive compensation. How far can we go? Do you understand my question?

[Yves Ruel]

Yes, absolutely.

Each concession obviously has an impact on the Canadian economy, as well as making things uncertain and sapping investors' confidence. As Mr. Klompmaker said, he has invested in his business, he has bought equipment and heat exchangers to improve his environmental performance. If he didn't believe that the system would be viable over the next few years, he probably wouldn't have invested in it and his children would choose another sector, rather than chicken.

The losses that we are having because of these concessions force us to look at other opportunities more and more. We are very innovative when it comes to offering the best products possible to Canadian consumers. We have farm biosecurity programs and producers are working hard to develop new business opportunities, because sadly, they're losing some because of the imports.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

You know that currently...

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I'm sorry, Mr. Martel. You only have two seconds left.

Next, we have Mr. Miao for three minutes, please.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses attending today.

Through the chair, I would like to address Mr. Klompmaker.

How does supply management help ensure that Canadian chicken farmers can earn a fair and stable income? How does this ultimately benefit the consumers in our country?

[Tim Klompmaker]

Supply management basically operates under three pillars. Under the import control pillar, we have controls on pricing and we set volumes. As I indicated before, the volumes are set through a board of directors, which has processes for the processors and food services as well. The benefits of that are that we have the ability to supply what the marketplace needs and, at the same time, we create the stability where we don't have oversupply and undersupply of products.

From a consumer perspective, with a steady stream of product available to consumers, we're not seeing the fluctuations in wholesale prices. Certainly, from a farmer perspective, our prices are set, and they're all based off a cost of production formula. We do not have any control beyond the farm gate as far as pricing is concerned, but certainly, we do create that stability because of the fact we have a steady stream. The other side is that we're producing in all provinces.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

What are some of the economic benefits of buying Canadian chickens?

[Tim Klompmaker]

The big benefit is that you're supporting Canadians. When we take a look at it, this is not just about farmers. Our farmers are in 10 different provinces, and we're in the rural communities. Many of those rural communities depend on supply management, whether it's implement dealers, feed suppliers or chick hatcheries. It also gets into the urban centres. We're supporting urban centres through our processing plants and distributors.

That's where the benefits are, as we're creating about 102,000 jobs in Canada.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

With the implementation of Bill C-282, will it adequately address the concerns and needs of small-scale chicken farmers across Canada?

[Tim Klompmaker]

Bill C-282 will give people the confidence to invest in farms. It'll give the confidence for them to start up smaller farms. Certainly, with smaller farms, we do have the advantage of.... With supply management, we have very rigorous food safety and animal care programs. That goes across all of our farms, so it does maintain those small family farms.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

I'm sorry, Mr. Miao. Time is short today.

Monsieur Perron, you have one minute and a half.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Ruel, I have one and a half minutes. Can you please talk to us about the effects of supply management, its impact on communities and small towns and on the region in general, as well as its impact on suppliers and customers, who oftentimes are suppliers and customers from other agricultural sectors.

I am giving you all the time I have left to bring up any other point that you would like to clarify to the committee.

[Yves Ruel]

Thank you.

There are numerous types of impact, including the impact on input suppliers. As Mr. Klompmaker said today, he buys $3.5 million worth of feed annually to feed his chickens. This is grain that he buys from corn or soya suppliers. You just have to think of all the feed mills in Canada, the chick suppliers and those who provide wood shavings that producers use as bedding. There are the suppliers of propane or any other fuel used to heat the hen barns in winter or to ventilate them in summer. Then there are the processing and high processing plants and the distribution companies. There's also the need to feed Canadians and to provide them with a study supply.

Sadly, as we saw at the beginning of the pandemic, it was difficult to maintain a study supply of chicken, but we managed to do so. This is important for both rural and urban regions. Our producers support 101,000 jobs across Canada, which is a high number. These jobs are found everywhere, in every province, and are not concentrated in one sole region of the country. Our producers contribute more than $8 billion to Canada's GDP, and...

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Mr. Ruel. I'm sorry to interrupt.

We'll go to Mr. Cannings for one minute and a half, please.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

I will ask Mr. Klompmaker my question again.

You mentioned the idea of death by a thousand cuts. Certainly in the dairy sector over the past three main trade agreements, we have seen 3%, 3% and 3%, a total of 10%. There was 8% access before, so now they have 18% access to their market from foreign producers.

Is that the same thing that the chicken farmers have seen, the poultry producers?

[Tim Klompmaker]

After the last trade agreement, the CUSMA trade agreement, was completed, the access for Canadian chicken was at 10.8%.