International Trade Committee on May 4th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

We will move on to Mr. Cannings for two and half minutes, please.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

I have just one more question about cheese.

You briefly mentioned Bill C-282, which we have obviously discussed at this committee, and your concerns with it. You have these other concerns about the TRQ, the quota system. I'm not an expert here, but it strikes me that the quota system is more of a problem for you. If we got rid of Bill C-282, you would still have a difficult situation before you. Is that right?

[Joe Dal Ferro]

We have lived alongside supply management since the 1970s and we stand by supply management. What we would like to see is performance-based allocation of quotas.

In a sense, we should measure companies by how they import cheese versus what is produced in Canada, and that's what causes the disadvantage for us at the moment. If we were to allocate quota based on cheese importation, it would be a far more balanced approach for the marketplace.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

I guess I didn't ask my question very well. If we solve the quota situation, would you be in a situation of having a good, thriving business and have Bill C-282—

[Joe Dal Ferro]

It will allow a greater variety of cheeses to enter Canada with better prices for Canadian consumers.

[Patrick Pelliccione]

In the CPTPP agreement and the CUSMA agreement, the allocation is awarded to one side of the TRQ. It has been given to a particular group—85% of it—and the rest of the importers are left with only 15%. There is more access, but the access is limited to only 15% of the total access.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

I was going to have one more question, but I—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have 35 seconds.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Okay. I'll go to Mr. Carey.

You talked about how Canada needed, as I understood it, more capacity to actually manage the trade agreements after we sign them. Maybe you were talking about that with the technocrats. You could take 20 seconds now and tell us exactly what—

[Dave Carey]

Yes, the United States trade representative's office has an entire team of about 12 people dedicated to the implementation of trade deals so that the spirit of the deal is being carried out. We have advocated that type of office for Canada, but it hasn't gone far, unfortunately.

There is also a time when it's not about politics and it's not about trade commissions. It's just that technical discussions need to happen, and they need to happen over a long period of time when trust can be built.

There have been many instances when a shipment is rejected because of a concern about a pest, but that pest doesn't even exist in Canada. If we had an entomologist in the region who could walk us through.... That is why the Indo-Pacific agriculture office under the Indo-Pacific strategy is so attractive to all agricultural exporters.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We will go to Mr. Baldinelli for five minutes, please.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for being with us this afternoon.

I'm going to build on my colleague's line of questioning, first with the International Cheese Council and Mr. Dal Ferro.

In your presentation and those of others—for example, Mondo Foods and Tree of Life—the discussions did not centre very much on the market access as set by CUSMA, CETA and CPTPP; the concern in what we were hearing is about the TRQs, the quota allocation.

You said it best about CETA and the lack of certainty for the small distributors and how, unfortunately, you're getting to a point where you can't compete.

I want to ask two questions.

You talked about how the government instituted a review that's been taking place since 2019. You've had the ability, I would imagine, to feed into that. Are you hearing reasons that explain why it's taking so long?

[Joe Dal Ferro]

Frankly, with regard to specific reasons, no. It's just, “It's under review. It's been postponed.” We're just waiting for a positive outcome for all parties concerned.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Given that it's been going on since 2019, have you had an ability to update information or have recent meetings with the government on this review?

You would think it would be a priority. We're risking these small and medium-sized companies. I have a facility in Niagara Falls, a great place called Roman Cheese products. It's fabulous. Their products are all over Ontario and in fact all over Canada, but they're a distributor as well, and you know the challenges that they face.

Are you hearing anything on why it's taking so long?

[Joe Dal Ferro]

On specific reasons, no, but we are equally frustrated, because we need a resolution. It's extremely challenging for us to plan, to forecast and to promote future business under these circumstances.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Second, you talked about the difficulties and that lack of certainty, primarily with CETA. Some years it changes your quota allocation. You may face that prospect of having to rent or purchase some quota from others.

Is there a regime in place that dictates the price of that, or is it just an open market? Every year, you could be paying a little bit more, a little bit less. It—

[Joe Dal Ferro]

That is correct, sir. It's an open market.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

That makes it have even more of an impact on your small and medium-sized enterprises.

[Joe Dal Ferro]

It makes it very challenging to forecast and to plan, and ultimately it's the Canadian consumer who pays the price.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

They ultimately pay the price. Thank you for that.

I'd like to go now to the Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance and Mr. Carey.

You talked in your presentation about some of the trade barriers that exist. You talked about direct government support, in essence, and most people would think monetary support, government policies, a regulatory approach. However, we recently reviewed Bill C-282 here. What it would do is preclude discussions of our supply-managed sectors when the Canadian government undertakes new trade negotiations.

CUSMA is up for renewal in the next couple of years. We're currently working on a Canada-U.K. trade agreement. We've just had the U.K. accession to the CPTPP.

Do you see this as a trade irritant that is just waiting to happen?

[Dave Carey]

Yes.

In short, I think years from now, if Bill C-282 does pass, countries and parliamentarians around the world will be discussing Canada in the same way that we're discussing the U.K. and India, because we've legislated out a massive part of our sector as opposed to negotiating. In making sure supply management gets a deal that's protected, Bill C-282 will be viewed internationally by our trading partners as a trade irritant. It will also impact future WTO negotiations around agriculture for sure.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you.

Madam Chair, how much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have 50 seconds.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Mr. Beck, would you have any comments on that?

[Stewart Beck]

I would agree with what he said.