Evidence of meeting #63 for International Trade in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ntbs.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC
Thank you.
I'm going to turn to Mr. Laird again.
We have heard a lot about difficulties with the WTO recently. I know Canada began some sort of effort in terms of modernizing or fixing the WTO. I haven't heard much recently on that.
I'm wondering whether you could perhaps take some time to outline where you would like to see the WTO go that would benefit Canada and the rest of the world.
12:45 p.m.
Lawyer, As an Individual
Thanks very much for the question.
The real problem is centred on the United States' refusal to appoint members of the appeals panel. Frankly, whatever efforts we can make to help sway the U.S. to move away from that.... Canada has been leading on this and looking for other mechanisms, means and alternate dispute resolution methods. That's certainly a way to go at this. It's an option for Canada and I credit it for making those efforts.
Ultimately, I think it's about making the system itself work. That's a bigger issue that will require a lot more international co-operation.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC
Quickly, in the time I have left—and this is a very big question—what kinds of things could you envision for tackling some of these non-tariff barriers, especially around technical regulatory issues? We just heard about the BSE situation.
How do we get at those very difficult problems?
12:45 p.m.
Lawyer, As an Individual
This is something for everyone, I think. That's the big question.
I think it's the work of our negotiators. This allows me to raise the point that this is an excellent exercise involving the trade associations and individuals. When we're involved in these negotiations, drawing on the experience of the types of people we have in this room is absolutely critical to identifying those issues. I would put out this challenge to the negotiators and the department: They need to engage much better with Canadian industry when negotiating, so they're aware of the exact issues at stake.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I want to talk to the National Cattle Feeders' Association, particularly with respect to the sanitary and phytosanitary issues surrounding carcass wash with both the U.K. and the EU.
Would you consider this to be a non-tariff barrier because the standard here is internationally accepted? Why hasn't this been resolved? There are dispute resolution procedures within CETA. Is it that those dispute resolution mechanisms aren't robust enough, or is there a lack of political will to get it done?
12:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, National Cattle Feeders' Association
Again, I can start on this.
You're asking the $100-million question, because it is a trade barrier. It's not as if it hasn't been brought up multiple times. From what we understand, the EU is saying it doesn't meet their technical standards, so they are unwilling to move. We've had meetings with Global Affairs Canada and Minister Ng's office. I think they understand the issue. It has been brought up multiple times, but it appears the EU is not willing to move on this.
Certainly, at this point in time, we consider it a non-tariff trade barrier.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
How long has that been going on? How many years has it been now?
12:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, National Cattle Feeders' Association
I'm not sure.
Will, do you know the answer? It's certainly more than six years.
12:45 p.m.
Chair of Board of Directors, National Cattle Feeders' Association
Yes, I would say it's in that range.
As I said, it's a matter of spending more capital in these plants. We have plants here that will do it. They have done it as a niche market. They have spent the money on the capital outlay to put those different washes in. I think it's a steam bath more than a lactic acid.... The data actually supports our current system—our lactic acid washes—as being more effective than the steam baths.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Do you know whether, in the U.S., they use a lactic acid wash and they are able to export beef into the EU?
12:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, National Cattle Feeders' Association
As far as I know, yes, that is correct, and to Will's answer, if we don't have the market to be able to use this alternative system, it means the plant has to shut down for a day and implement a completely different system. We need that market, and right now the market's not consistent because of this barrier. If we could get past this, we might be able to build that market.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
You said yes. Did you mean, yes, the U.S. uses the same carcass wash you do or, yes, the U.S. can export into the EU despite using the same system we do?
12:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, National Cattle Feeders' Association
Go ahead, Will.
12:50 p.m.
Chair of Board of Directors, National Cattle Feeders' Association
I'm just going to say it depends on the system. You have to have two lines to these plants, one for the regular lactic acid—
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Using the acid wash that you use, can the U.S. export? I'm trying to see if this non-tariff barrier is being applied consistently to both Canada and the United States, or is it being applied to just Canada?
12:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, National Cattle Feeders' Association
I am going to check to make sure I have the appropriate answer and get back to you, but my understanding is that, yes, they can use the lactic acid wash that Canada is not allowed to use. I will confirm that to be 100% certain.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Thank you very much.
I want to quickly switch gears to talk about the country-of-origin labelling that's percolating in the United States. We know that these are draft regulations and that they are voluntary, but it's a significant issue, I think, for Canadian beef.
Do you think that the passage of Bill C-282, which, I take it, will not be well received in the United States, will make this non-tariff trade barrier more difficult to resolve with the United States?
12:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, National Cattle Feeders' Association
You're asking a crystal-ball question, so I'll give you a crystal-ball answer.
Obviously they're going to know before coming to the trade table that this is non-negotiable, so it's kind of like we're showing our hand before we even go into trade negotiations. I think they will absolutely use that in their negotiations as well, whether they want that or not, which we know in the U.S. they do. Even if other countries, which maybe don't even want access to our supply-managed goods, know that those are not on the table, then that's something they're going to be using when they come to negotiations with Canada.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you very much.
We go now to Mr. Virani for five minutes. Go ahead, please.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
To the folks from the cattle feeders' association, let me just echo what Mr. Seeback was asking you.
Ms. Tranberg, definitely, could you drill down and verify that point for us with respect to the similarities between the carcass treatment in Canada and in the United States and the potential dissimilarities in EU reception?
Also, let me ask you another question. We heard at the very outset about irritating non-tariff trade barriers but also about some that might be in a more legitimate or good-faith vein. I've heard a lot in my work with Minister Ng about Indonesia's requirements for halal beef, and this is obviously a question that would arise with Pakistan as well.
Tell me how your industry is addressing requirements that are religiously oriented for some of the very populous and economically large potential trading nations in Asia. How can we assist you in handling those concerns as well, specifically with respect to halal beef?
This is for Ms. Tranberg.
12:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, National Cattle Feeders' Association
I'm going to have to get back to you on that as well. I know that, with respect to the halal beef, they're now starting to look for additional requirements from the CFIA. The CFIA, I think, doesn't necessarily have the processes in place to inspect and to ensure something is halal, so that is a question we're working on right now. That's why I don't have a definitive answer for you, but I will definitely get back to you on that.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
Thank you very much.
Can you tell me a little bit about going to the other side of the world? We've been talking a lot about Europe in some of the recent questioning, but with respect to Japan and the advent of the CPTPP, I understand that the CPTPP has had a positive impact on Canadian exports of beef to that part of the world. Is that correct from your perspective, and do you know what the increase has been in terms of Canadian beef exports getting out to Japan?
12:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, National Cattle Feeders' Association
Yes, absolutely, there's been a positive result from that, particularly as we've been shut out of the Chinese market. We're looking to build in other Asian markets, and Japan has certainly been one of those. Again, I don't have the statistics right in front of me on how much it has increased, but—I feel like a broken record; I apologize—I will definitely get back to you on those numbers.