Evidence of meeting #7 for International Trade in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was russia.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Roman Waschuk  Business Ombudsman in Ukraine, As an Individual
Michel Roche  Professor, Université du Québec à Chicoutimi, As an Individual
Zenon Potoczny  President, Canada-Ukraine Chamber of Commerce
Tim McMillan  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
Ihor Michalchyshyn  Executive Director and Chief Executive Officer, Ukrainian Canadian Congress

5:25 p.m.

Business Ombudsman in Ukraine, As an Individual

Roman Waschuk

One thing I note is that we shouldn't just get stuck on hydrocarbons. Ukraine also potentially—and Germany is very interested in this— could be a producer of hydrogen and use some of its current natural gas storage for hydrogen storage. Its storage capacities for gas are among the largest of any kind in Europe. It could be a European hydrogen hub as well.

There are forward-looking technologies in which Canadian companies could also become engaged, in terms of natural gas as a transition fuel given its carbon footprint, which is lower than that of other hydrocarbons.

I would say the priority should be on helping Ukraine develop its own domestic supplies. The discussion on Nord Stream 2 versus Ukraine is really one in which people say Ukraine will lose transit revenues. Yes, it will. What it's more worried about is that as soon as Nord Stream 2 goes on stream, Russia is free to attack basically the infrastructure in Ukraine because it no longer has to worry about cutting off its own revenue opportunities by selling gas to Europe. Focusing on improving Ukraine's domestic production, and then already transitioning to a future in which hydrogen and other alternative fuel are used are probably the two areas where we can be most helpful.

I am with Mr. McMillan on the potential of liquid natural gas, but let's face it: given Canadian infrastructure-building tempos, that's not going to be on tap in the next three to five years.

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

Quickly, Mr. Waschuk, I thought the trade between Ukraine and Canada would be much greater with the people-to-people connection. We have a very strong Ukrainian diaspora in Canada. Given that, I would have expected our trade to be much bigger than it is now.

What is hindering that? In fact, somebody did mention that trade before CUFTA was bigger than after CUFTA.

What is hindering the trade between these two countries?

5:25 p.m.

Business Ombudsman in Ukraine, As an Individual

Roman Waschuk

Partly it's because we make some of the same stuff. Both of us are big temperate-climate commodity producers. We're actually competitors in a number of areas—grains and oilseeds, for example—so the complementarities are more in the equipment and processing, and that is where we hobble ourselves by not having the export company support through EDC.

Basically, you have at the moment the British, the French and the Americans coming in with hundreds of millions and billions in export financing and Canadian companies telling the Ukrainians to please buy cash. That's not a sustainable basis for doing business anywhere.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much.

All of our witnesses know that the hearts and prayers of all of us are with Ukraine in this challenging time as they move forward.

My apologies again for starting the meeting late, but thank you so much for the valuable information.

I will adjourn the meeting.