Evidence of meeting #70 for International Trade in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was uht.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Tony Baldinelli Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
We've spoken to Representative Higgins. He said his office had been contacted by about 400 residents or constituents.
How has your office dealt with the calls? Have you received many in that regard?
5 p.m.
Mayor, The Corporation of the Town of Fort Erie, As an Individual
We've received many, and we've taken the position that we will support changes to this tax as it relates to our American seasonal residents. As I said, we have 900 properties in Fort Erie that are owned by Americans. They're part of our community, so they pay taxes. They pay the property taxes just like everyone else, based on the value of their homes. Some of these homes are very valuable homes. They're valuable, of course, to the families, but in terms of taxation, they carry a heavy tax burden. They provide us with some of the taxes that we rely upon, but, more importantly, they're part of our community. As Ms. Wright mentioned, they support our local businesses. They participate in our festivals. They go to our library. They're patrons of many of the social activities that go on in our community, so we consider them to be, as I said, part of our community in every sense of the word.
We've provided them with the support. As I said, I've corresponded with the minister. I've had numerous conversations with both you and Mr. Vance Badawey, who's in the next riding on Lake Erie. Any support we can provide, we've been prepared to do that, including assisting the government in notifying our seasonal residents at any time of any information they would need.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Tony Baldinelli Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
Thank you for that. I just have limited time.
I want to ask Mr. Ketteman and Ms. Wright a question. We spoke to finance officials. Essentially, they came up with the policy idea, and the implementation was left to CRA.
Mr. Ketteman, you were the first person who actually wrote to me, in February 2022, with regard to your concerns, and I immediately wrote to the minister's office in March of that year as well. Since that time, we're still looking for clarification and some answers to the questions.
I'm just wondering, for both of you, how it has been, trying to deal with CRA to get some answers.
5 p.m.
Homeowner, As an Individual
I have written countless emails to elected officials, all the way up to Prime Minister Trudeau, Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland, and others who I've been told would have a play in this, including the CRA. In most cases I didn't even receive the courtesy of a reply. In some cases there was an autogenerated reply, “We've received your email, thank you,” and whatever the rest of the language was.
Honestly, Tony, it's been extremely frustrating just to be heard, and, as I said in my statement, I'm so grateful. I can attest for everyone in this community, and Laurie and I know very many people in this community who are thankful you've taken the initiative to work on this.
5:05 p.m.
Homeowner, As an Individual
Last summer I, too, wrote emails to Prime Minister Trudeau and the Minister of Finance. There was so much confusion as to how this tax was going to be executed, and then I kind of gave up, because it was so frustrating. I received automated email responses, but nobody really helped us.
Richard Halinda is a local barrister here whom we used, and he gave us some advice, but it's been very confusing.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
June 8th, 2023 / 5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I appreciate the witnesses for coming forward.
I'm just going to make a couple of observations. I'm sensing some frustration from both Ms. Wright and Mr. Ketteman with respect to a perceived lack of responsiveness on the part of Canadian representatives.
I would, with the utmost of respect, just point out that the operation of representative democracy is no different in Canada from in the United States. What I mean by that is that the responsibility of elected representatives such as me, the Prime Minister or the Minister of Finance is to respond to the concerns of people who elected them in their ridings, or people who are in Canada. I think that's the way it operates in the United States, as it operates here. That is as it should be. That's who we're accountable to.
I want to now turn to a question for Mayor Redekop.
I want to make sure that I heard you correctly in saying that you were aware of the consultations taking place, but you chose not to participate in them. Is that what you said during questioning by Mr. Baldinelli?
5:05 p.m.
Mayor, The Corporation of the Town of Fort Erie, As an Individual
I was given no formal notification. I had heard that this was being contemplated by the government.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
Did you learn that through the announcement in the campaign platform or the announcement in the budget? How did you hear about the consultations?
5:05 p.m.
Mayor, The Corporation of the Town of Fort Erie, As an Individual
I probably read something in a newspaper or something of that nature. It was certainly nothing of a formal nature.
5:05 p.m.
Mayor, The Corporation of the Town of Fort Erie, As an Individual
By the way, I corresponded with Minister Freeland on February 21, 2023. I haven't received a response. I do live in Canada.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
That's important, Mayor Redekop. That's something that should be responded to. There's no disputing that component.
I also heard you say, Mayor Redekop—I think you said this and I think some of the other witnesses said it —that, obviously, housing shortages are an issue. You also suggested that your remedy would simply be a usage phenomenon. If I understood you correctly, you said that there shouldn't be a rural/urban divide in the way this policy is implemented. It should just be that 90 days of usage means you're exempt. Is that what you said earlier to the committee?
5:05 p.m.
Mayor, The Corporation of the Town of Fort Erie, As an Individual
Yes, and that was based on the fact that the way it stands right now, as Ms. Wright has mentioned, there are American seasonal owners who, if they live within the urban boundary, are subject to the tax. If they live outside the urban boundary, and we have large areas that are outside our urban boundaries, they're not subject to the tax.
All of these American seasonal residents spend three months or four months, weekends during the off-season and during holidays here. If you were to utilize a time frame—three months is what I suggested—you're likely going to cover all of the American seasonal residents who are committed to utilizing their properties for their family use. Then you're going to eliminate anyone who's utilizing the property solely for investment purposes.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
Mayor Redekop, if I could just continue with it, though, the extrapolation of what you're saying is that if it's based purely on usage and not on a rural/urban divide, then a person who lives in whatever country, whether it's the United States or Austria, for that matter, who has a condominium in downtown Toronto, downtown Vancouver, downtown Calgary or downtown Montreal and uses it for 90 days out of 365 would be exempted from this tax. Is that your proposal?
5:05 p.m.
Mayor, The Corporation of the Town of Fort Erie, As an Individual
I'm concerned about Fort Erie, but if you're talking about people who are taking property out of the housing market, you have to have some parameter. The example that I used was the American seasonal residents who are occupying the property. They're contributing to our community, as opposed to the investors, who are utilizing their properties for short-term rentals, a clearly commercial purpose within a residential area. They're not part of our community and, in fact, they create more difficulties, sometimes, than they resolve. They are definitely taking houses out of the existing housing market for investment purposes, whereas, for these American seasonal residents, these homes have never really been part of our housing market, strictly speaking, for people who live here, because they've been utilized as seasonal residences by our American neighbours.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
I appreciate that you're talking about Fort Erie, but we're trying to craft policy and perfect policy for the entire nation. I didn't really hear an answer to the question.
It seems to me that when you talk about a straight usage criterion of 90 days to apply around the country, it would do exactly that. It would exempt a downtown Toronto condominium that's used 90 days of the year from any sort of unused housing tax. That's, in fact, exactly what this tax is trying to address, something that is unused and is depriving people in the city I represent. I'll stand up now for the city I represent, which is Toronto. I'm an MP from Toronto, which is suffering an acute housing shortage.
5:10 p.m.
Mayor, The Corporation of the Town of Fort Erie, As an Individual
Well, I don't know what the situation is in Toronto, but if you have someone occupying the property for 90 days, then that means there are at least 90 days when they're utilizing it. What are they doing for the rest of the period of time? I don't know that.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you very much.
We'll go on to Mr. Savard-Tremblay for five minutes.
5:10 p.m.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
What is the vacancy rate in your area, Mr. Redekop?
5:10 p.m.
Mayor, The Corporation of the Town of Fort Erie, As an Individual
There's virtually no vacancy rate. We have a shortage of housing. We're approving the construction of new housing as quickly as possible. We've had record housing starts in the last seven or eight years, and we're still finding that we have a need for more housing—affordable housing in particular.
5:10 p.m.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Vacancy usually refers to properties that are vacant.
Do you have any statistics on the percentage of American-owned residences in your area being used for short-term rentals?
5:10 p.m.
Mayor, The Corporation of the Town of Fort Erie, As an Individual
We have, as I said, about 900 properties that are designated as being owned by American residents or citizens. We also have 250 properties that are licensed for short-term rentals, and a waiting list of about 100. Those are properties, typically, that have been taken out of the housing market and are being utilized for commercial purposes. Some of the American-owned properties may be licensed for short-term rental, but it would be a very small number.