International Trade Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2023

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Okay, that's good. When you talked about more competition, innovation and consumer choice, these are the kinds of words I hear when people want more imports to come in. I hope that you also speak for the domestic manufacturers.

[Gerry Harrington]

One hundred per cent. That's precisely what my point was. That was an example of where modernized regulations made Canadian manufacturers' products more attractive outside the country and actually created export opportunities.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have 23 seconds remaining.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Okay. My last question is for Mr. Parker.

Is there anything else that we should focus on in relation to labelling, as you mentioned?

[Stephen Parker]

I don't know how we'd do it, but I think it's important that we have some sort of pandemic response where we're guaranteed a certain amount of raw materials, because I had products turned around at the border. I thought I was getting them, and the border said, “No, these products aren't leaving the U.S.” The same thing's going to happen whether it's U.S. manufacturers or Canadian. Products aren't going to come in to Canada in the way we're going to need them to.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We now go to Mr. Savard-Tremblay for six minutes.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thank the witnesses for being here with us today.

Mr. Côté, we heard from an association member last Tuesday. In answer to a question from one of my colleagues opposite, he indicated that the interests are rather closely aligned with those of American companies, considering the business volume.

Who are your customers? Who are the members of your association?

[André Côté]

Nearly 99% of our customers are Quebec SMEs who do business on the Canadian market.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you.

We also heard from Health Canada officials. According to them, if the protocols are identical, then the process will be too. You briefly explained that such was not the case, particularly in terms of delays. Please feel free to elaborate on that if you'd like.

I would like you to tell us a little bit more about what makes Canada's regulations different from those of the United States. When it comes to regulatory alignment, we are talking about reciprocity, or regulations that are similar if not identical.

What are your thoughts on that?

[André Côté]

That is the problem. The differences in the regulations cause a lot of confusion.

On Tuesday, I heard Mr. Cannings explain how confusing this was, and I think there is a general consensus in that regard. Canada lumped everything together and looks at everything from a drug perspective. It applies the drug regulations to all of these products. These regulations apply to the pharmaceutical industry and they are accompanied by pharmacovigilance principles, clinical studies and everything that is involved in that. In Canada, the same regulations that apply to drugs also apply to disinfectants.

That means that, unlike the United States Environmental Protection Agency, or EPA, and unlike the European Chemicals Agency, which implemented the REACH regulations, Canada does not review the raw materials that will make up a disinfectant. We do not do any toxicological reviews or reviews of the environmental fate of those materials. We assess the quality or suitability of a disinfectant based on the drug criteria. We look at whether the product will reduce something or prevent a disease. In Canada, we do not look at whether a disinfectant will make surfaces cleaner or more hygienic.

That is the difference in the regulations, and that is what is preventing Canadian companies from doing business in the U.S.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

What is happening in other G7 countries?

[André Côté]

Basically, Europe operates on pretty much the same principle as the United States. There is a comprehensive assessment of raw materials to check several aspects, including toxicology, safety and the environment. Everything is described in detail. It is only at the end of that process that the product is registered, if everything meets the requirements.

In Canada, the process is the same one that is used for drugs. Product specifications must be established and guaranteed, period. That is why Canadian companies cannot compete with products made in other G7 countries. The regulatory framework is not the same.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

You talked a little bit about surface cleaners that come into contact with food.

Can you elaborate on this?

[André Côté]

This is an essential product category. A prime example is food factories. I know them well, as I've been going into them for years now. Factories are cleaned from top to bottom every night. Cleaning staff are dedicated to this and work very hard. They have to sanitize all surfaces that come into contact with food. The cleaning is usually complete by about 4 a.m. Federal and provincial inspectors then check the premises. For instance, Canadian Food Inspection Agency inspectors might show up at the plant around 7 a.m. to confirm that all surfaces are free of micro-organisms. This must be done before the plant can restart operations.

Currently, sanitizers are the main products that are not regulated. There are currently no companies with a drug identification number, or DIN. No products are registered for this kind of application. In contrast, if we look at the same activity in an American food plant, the sanitizer used in the morning prior to the day's operations will have EPA certification.

That's the problem. What we're saying is that we just need to give the Canadian industry time to get its products approved in Canada, so that they can be on an equal footing with products from other countries. Once that is done, once Canadian companies comply with Canadian regulations, all products will be assessed on the same basis. Then it will be time to think about allowing foreign companies to offer their products here.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

As I understand it, the EPA is not the equivalent of Health Canada. It's more like the Canadian Food Inspection Agency.

Do I have that right?

[André Côté]

The EPA is actually more the equivalent of the Pest Management Regulatory Agency, or PMRA, and the U.S. Environmental Protection Act is much more similar to the Pest Control Products Act in Canada.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Shouldn't we just put this before the courts?

[André Côté]

Twenty years ago, a little before I began my career, I learned in dribs and drabs that there had been a memorable squabble between officials at the Pest Management Regulatory Agency and Health Canada officials in the therapeutic products directorate at the time.

Unfortunately, the officials in the therapeutic products directorate lost the fight, and are now faced with a thorny problem. According to the Canadian definition, a disinfectant is a “drug”, because the product is designed to prevent a disease on a surface. In Canada, as I said earlier, a table is “treated”. That is what the officials told you on Tuesday. Surfaces are treated to prevent disease from being transmitted to humans. That forms the basis of Canadian regulations, and that's why linking them to U.S. or G7 regulations doesn't work.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Do you think the department or oversight body should change?

[André Côté]

Yes, I think so.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Mr. Savard-Tremblay.

Thank you. That's—

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Was that last answer recorded?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Yes, we got that. Thank you.

We go now to Mr. Cannings for six minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

Thank you all for being here.

Thank you especially, Monsieur Côté, for coming here again. I'm glad to hear it. I think you pointed out that I was confused on Tuesday, and I think maybe we all were in some ways. I admit that I was confused, and I think you've helped clear up that confusion.

What we were hearing on Tuesday was that there was some unfairness between American and Canadian companies trying to register their products. The American companies apparently had an advantage because they were already registered through the EPA, whereas Canadian companies had to register their products here or had to get them approved.

My initial thought on that, as you heard, was that they had to do it through the EPA and we have to do it our way, so how is that unfair?

Again, maybe you can clear up my confusion. What you're saying here today is that those companies here in Canada have not had to register their products until now, so is this a new thing? We've been just selling products that weren't approved in any way and they had to have them approved, and that's where they're ahead of us. Is that it?