International Trade Committee on Nov. 9th, 2023

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

My first question is for Mr. Roman Waschuk.

With your knowledge and experience in Europe, and the plans for Ukraine to join the European Union, one of the things about the European Union is that everybody has to agree. We have seen what happened with the long negotiations with Turkey. Finally, Turkey has had to withdraw its intention or its application of interest in joining the European Union.

With countries like Hungary being part of the European Union, how confident are you that Ukraine will be able to join the European Union someday?

[Roman Waschuk]

I mentioned the word “horse-trading”, and that is a long European tradition.

Turkey is a very large, very dynamic, very populous economy that seemed to be a step too far for the Europeans.

Ukraine already, for example, is part of the auto parts manufacturing pipeline that goes through Poland and then into final assembly plants in places like Germany, so it's already linked to the broader economic system and, under what the Europeans offered after the outbreak of full-scale war, has largely unrestricted access to the single market. Of course, millions of Ukrainians have received temporary protected status in EU countries. In a way, it's almost like millions of Ukrainians having an EU 101 course, which they involuntarily got because of this outbreak of war.

I think Ukraine now getting this prospect will help other countries, like the countries of the western Balkans, to move into the European Union more quickly. The EU itself was stuck and wasn't sure what to do, but what they have realized is that, with Russia going aggressive and going expansionist, they need to lock down, if you will, countries like Ukraine and Moldova, but also Serbia and Albania—countries like that—for their own good.

I think the German foreign minister said it yesterday, this is not just an economic decision; it's a geopolitical response to what's happening.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Quickly, because I have limited time, I understand the horse-trading that you mentioned. I don't know what was traded with Turkey so that it agreed to Sweden's inclusion in NATO.

My specific question was about a country like Hungary playing spoilsport here. Can you touch on that?

Second, the infrastructure destruction is enormous in Ukraine, and Canada can play a real and good role in the rebuilding of infrastructure. That requires a long-term commitment from Canadian businesses and from Ukraine too. Do you think this modernized Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement will help Canadian businesses have a long-term interest in Ukraine?

[Roman Waschuk]

Thank you.

Yes, Hungary is a spoiler. It has often made quite outrageous statements, mostly about what it sees as the protection of Hungarian minority rights but really is slightly irredentist stuff. However, it has then agreed, in the spirit of horse-trading, to, let's say, more European subsidies for this or that, and then their super principled position goes from veto to, “We will just abstain on that.” That's one aspect.

Another is that, indeed, I think Canadian companies need to be well positioned, and CUFTA being modernized will help. I think, also, that a triangular partnering with European countries, especially neighbouring countries, will be helpful because that provides you with both a logistical base and a secure regulatory and simply safe base for operations.

I have spent quite a lot of time in Poland in the last 18 months, and there is a lot of interest from the Polish business community in reconstruction and also in partnering with countries from further abroad in finding out who has comparative advantages in what areas.

Interestingly, there is a discussion of EDC. The Polish export—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kyle Seeback]

Mr. Waschuk, I will have to interrupt. We're over the time, and we're getting very near the end.

Our two last questioners will be Monsieur Savard-Tremblay and Ms. Idlout. They will each have two and a half minutes.

Mr. Savard-Tremblay, please go ahead.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Michalchyshyn, when you first appeared before the committee in February 2022, you said: "The instability caused by Russia's escalation in recent weeks is causing private investors to flee and making it far more expensive for Ukraine to raise capital on lending markets." That was before the war.

Now that there is a war, which really is the height of the possible types of aggression, what is the situation?

[Ihor Michalchyshyn]

As I think we saw, the international security situation in December and January of 2022 was quite unstable. We saw Mr. Putin increase his troop numbers near the border. Up to eight million or 10 million individuals fled. Those were people who were working and continued to work. Some of them also found new jobs in the European Union.

I've been at some meetings about the international refugee situation that show that millions of Ukrainians are returning to Ukraine despite the situation, partially because Ukraine now has air defence in almost all of its major cities, and with Canadian support is able to take out most of the drones that Russia attacks it with.

There has been a stability, based on the number of people who left but are now returning back into Ukraine, which I've heard is into the millions, to live and work and contribute to the economy.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

You talked about investments and workers. However, what you said at the time was that private investors were influencing the costs of capital and the lending market. What can we observe in that regard?

[Ihor Michalchyshyn]

Again, the GDP has gone down 30%. There is an unstable situation in terms of the security, but I would say that, from what we understand, many multinational companies, particularly from Europe, Japan and other places, are looking at the long-term horizon for Canada-Ukraine perspectives in terms of the future.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kyle Seeback]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to our last round of questioning.

Ms. Idlout, you have two and a half minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Qujannamiik, Iksivautaq. Thank you, Chair.

I'll be asking my question to Mr. Potichny.

As I mentioned to the ambassador in the first panel, I'm glad to see that there are chapters on indigenous peoples and trade. I wonder if you could share with us how this chapter could increase access to the benefits of this agreement for indigenous peoples in Ukraine and Canada.

[Zenon Potichny]

Thank you very much for the question.

I guess we didn't have anything like this before. Talking about our membership, as members of the Canada-Ukraine Chamber of Commerce, we have about 100 companies as members from the Ukrainian side and about 100 companies from the Canadian side. We certainly have a few companies that have indigenous people involved in the business. I think that will definitely clarify and help expand it even more for indigenous people, especially on the Canadian side. I know that some companies are looking at doing some business in Ukraine right now involving indigenous peoples.

I think it's only positive that we have that clarified and clear in the free trade agreement.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Qujannamiik.

My final question to you is a similar question, because it's also great to see that gender is in this agreement. I wonder if you could explain what the benefits will be from ensuring that we consider gender in this agreement.

[Zenon Potichny]

Thank you for the question.

Absolutely, it will help and assist.

We were running the CUTIS project—the Canada-Ukraine trade and investment support project—with the Conference Board of Canada, which fell under the old free trade agreement. I remember, even during that project, we had to pay a lot of attention to gender equality in business, especially for small and medium-sized businesses. We had to mark down everything from every conference, meeting and deal, in terms of how many women and girls were involved in the transactions or other things happening.

Now that we have even more expansion on gender equality in the modernized free trade agreement, I think it's only positive. Ukrainian women are very active in business and want to get involved, especially the younger generation. They always look forward to working with Canadian businesses that have women as leaders, managers or bosses.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kyle Seeback]

We will conclude the meeting.

I want to thank all the witnesses for coming today to share their valuable insights.

With that, I will adjourn the meeting.