International Trade Committee on March 21st, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We now have Mr. Baldinelli for five minutes.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to our witnesses for being here this afternoon and for their presentation.

When I was going through the report, I noticed it mentions that the U.S. was our primary export partner for environmental and clean technology—about 73.2% of the value of our Canadian exports. You indicated the highest value in 2019 was $2 billion and that was in clean electricity.

As someone from Niagara, which is home to the Sir Adam Beck facilities and 2,200 megawatts of hydroelectric power, I think that's great to see. But the one thing that caught my eye was the notion.... I'm looking for the definition the government uses for clean electricity. We're talking about a North American integrated grid. Is it nuclear? Is it hydro? Is it natural gas? How does the department distinguish “clean electricity”?

[Daniel Dufour]

I will turn to my colleague, Anna van der Kamp, to answer this one.

Anna, please go ahead.

[Anna van der Kamp]

My understanding is that clean electricity is a non-emitting source of renewables and/or nuclear.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

You're talking about a province that is 60% nuclear. I think that's an interesting fact and a thing that we're not going to get away from. In fact, we're looking at investments in SMR technologies.

Earlier, one of the officials indicated a need to assist emerging technologies, and that whole move towards the potential of SMRs.... In our move towards net zero, does the government see the potential benefits of SMRs?

[Daniel Dufour]

Can I turn to you, Amanda?

[Amanda Wilson]

Sure. I will give a brief answer, and then we can of course follow up with our colleagues as needed.

As you would know, NRCan released an SMR road map a couple of years ago, I want to say, but I might be a little bit off on that. We have been working across departments and with colleagues both inside and outside government to advance the technologies. I know that our colleagues, as I said, have funded an SMR-related project, and our colleagues in the nuclear energy division continue to work on that. We'd be happy to provide an update.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you.

I'm just going to go a bit further about that whole notion of assisting emerging technologies.

There was an exciting opportunity in the renewable sector. In 2001 in Niagara—again within my own riding—there was a partnership among Walker Industries, Comcor Environmental Ltd., and Enbridge. It was a $42-million project that captured methane from landfill waste. They said it had the potential to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 48,000 tonnes, and actually heat up to 8,750 homes. In fact, what they're doing is working with local industries. I believe this project is working with the local General Motors facility and factory there on cogeneration facilities. They built some generators there to use for additional power transmission to save costs from its hydro facilities.

I'm wondering if that's something you're looking at as well, that whole notion of renewables from waste.

[Amanda Wilson]

Sure. Do you want me to take that, Dan?

[Daniel Dufour]

Please.

[Amanda Wilson]

Yes, we look at a broad range of technologies, which include, obviously, energy from waste and other sources. I'm not familiar with the project you're speaking about specifically, but I can tell you that we have funded a number of projects relating to energy from waste. I would say that this is a technology that has been talked about for some time and is still in development.

You also mentioned methane. As you know, the government has been working in the methane space for some time and has made some significant commitments there.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you.

Madam Chair, how much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have 34 seconds.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I'll cede my time. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you.

We'll move on to Mr. Arya for five minutes, please.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

On a related question, the European Union has declared nuclear and natural gas as green and sustainable. What are your thoughts on Canada's position on this?

[Daniel Dufour]

Amanda, could you take that?

[Amanda Wilson]

I don't know that Canada has put labels per se on natural gas and nuclear. I think we look more specifically towards energy intensity, understanding that it will be important to find the right mix of energy sources and technologies as we move ahead to net zero. With regard to natural gas in particular, as I'm sure you are aware, there is a lot of interest right now in the potential for combining natural gas with carbon capture use and storage to produce very low carbon-intensity hydrogen.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

On the evolution of electric vehicles and the batteries that are required, obviously we are home to a lot of critical minerals. China has taken a lead in the manufacturing of batteries. More important than batteries is the processing of the minerals and other chemicals required for the manufacturing of batteries. Some parts of Europe have also stepped forward. The United States has seen the implementation of seven or eight multi-billion dollar plants for the manufacturing of batteries.

A couple of years back, there was a meeting of battery manufacturers, mining companies, battery technologies and electric vehicle manufacturers to find out how to develop Canadian companies in this field. That meeting happened in the U.S. Department of Commerce. However, when I look at the Natural Resources Canada website, I do see the listing of 31 critical minerals, but nowhere have I found what our strategy is for fast-tracking the development of everything from mines to mineral processing to technologies to the manufacturing of batteries.

You can say that part of it is with ISED. I understand that. Don't we think that we need, broadly, a team Canada approach at the top level, under which various federal government departments join hands with the provincial governments and industry bodies to develop and actually implement it? But even before going there, I'm sure you should be working in coordination with other arms of the federal government.

Is there any plan available for us to look at that shows the path we are going to take to develop mines? The development of mines takes five to seven years. Is there any plan we can see as to the path forward, the strategy, how it's going to be implemented and the players implementing it? Is there anything available to us?

[Daniel Dufour]

Since at least 2019 there's been a whole lot of stakeholder engagement. A lot of research has been undertaken and there has been stakeholder engagement to really inform actions to think through what is referred to as the federal battery initiative. It's not a document per se; it's more of a governmental approach in terms of positioning Canada on the battery file and figuring out the opportunities and the gaps. There has been a whole lot of that engagement.

We have also produced a report that was called “From Mines to Mobility: Seizing Opportunities for Canada in the Global Battery Value Chain”. A lot of work has been done to date. A significant amount of work has been undertaken by the federal family on various aspects of the federal battery initiative.

There are multiple federal departments engaged in this: NRCan, ISED, Global Affairs and Invest in Canada. We've looked at expanding the “mines to mobility” initiative.

There has really been a strong focus on attracting anchor investment to build a domestic battery ecosystem linked to the automotive sector, but work has also been done by NRCan with other entities like Sustainable Development Technology Canada and Business Development Bank of Canada to look at innovation for stationary battery applications. There have been initiatives in that space like Impact Canada's “charging the future” challenge.

If you look at the recent ministerial mandate letter, you will see several priorities identified around the vision of developing sustainable battery innovation and an additional ecosystem in Canada. It's looking at the full spectrum, from minerals to manufacturing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Mr. Dufour.

We go now to Monsieur Savard-Tremblay for two and a half minutes.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

In the last federal budget, tabled in the spring of 2021, it was stated that the government wanted to launch a consultation process on border adjustments for carbon within weeks.

This sounds something like what was voted through the European Parliament in March 2021. It involved a carbon adjustment mechanism or, in other words, a levy on imports of certain goods from third-party countries with looser climate rules.

Consultations were to take place in the summer of 2021; was that promise kept?

[Daniel Dufour]

Amanda, are you in a position to respond to this one?

[Amanda Wilson]

I am not. I'm sorry.

I wonder if this is something we can get back to the committee on or if this is within Environment and Climate Change Canada's mandate.

[Daniel Dufour]

I would like to ask for a clarification. Are you talking about carbon?