Evidence of meeting #98 for International Trade in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbsa.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
You are undertaking to produce them, but the question is whether you may or may not have them. Is that what you're saying?
Partner, Deloitte
No. What I'm saying is that I will check with counsel and get back to the committee on the production of those documents.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Subject to there being a legal objection, will you produce them?
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
If there is a legal objection, I want you to provide the committee with that legal objection in writing.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Thank you.
What are ARL expenses? Do you know what those are? Are those expenses related to CARM that Deloitte was being paid for?
Partner, Deloitte
My understanding is that the ARL project is what they called CARM or preCARM. It was the movement of the general accounts receivable ledger. It predated my time.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Were ARL expenses charged by Deloitte to CBSA for the preCARM?
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Great. Then I want those contracts, as well, from whenever they started, and every single invoice related to ARL.
I assume that's subject to the agreement you just made.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Unless there's some kind of legal thing....
Thank you.
What's eManifest? Mr. Gallivan talked about eManifest in the last meeting, as an aside. I never got a chance to ask him.
What is that? Do you know?
Managing Director, Regulatory Affairs, Federal Express Canada Ltd.
I'm happy to speak about that.
eManifest is a requirement for carriers to provide information in advance for security vetting of all cargo. It's information on the conveyance—the aircraft or truck information—and all the cargo. It doesn't pertain to customs release, but it's a prior step to obtaining customs release.
It's for vetting any risk to Canada regarding those imports' conveyance or cargo.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Would it have to communicate with CARM, or would it be linked to CARM?
Managing Director, Regulatory Affairs, Federal Express Canada Ltd.
Everything is linked together in one way or another. For example, when we talk about eManifest, as a carrier, it's an admissibility filing, saying I am admissible or not. If we don't have admissibility filing that is accurate, we can't obtain release, and then we can't do the accounting. Everything is linked together.
Conservative
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Okay. We'll have to look into eManifest from someone else.
I'd like to quickly go back to the stakeholders. Through an ATIP, I was able to get correspondence from a Mr. Ossowski to Mr. Graham Flack, who is the secretary of the Treasury Board. This was in 2022. It's heavily redacted, but here's what I have: “Since its inception, the CARM project has involved a significant amount of stakeholder engagement. The stakeholder consultations have revealed two major industry concerns. First, given that stakeholders need to make significant IT system and other changes to meet CARM requirements, they are reluctant to move forward until all of CARM's legislative and regulatory aspects are finalized.”
Another one says, “The CBSA president indicates that the completion date is no longer possible for CARM, primarily because” and then it is redacted.
That was in January 2022. It is now March 2024. Would you say that the stakeholders' opinion now, in 2024, is the same as it was in 2022 in that it's not ready to go?
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
I think I have 15 seconds, so all I will say is I think it is very clear that stakeholders think this should not launch. If it launches and launches poorly, it will land at the government's feet, because it has been warned.
Liberal
Wilson Miao Liberal Richmond Centre, BC
Thank you Madam Chair.
Thank you to all of the witnesses for being here with us today and for sharing your concerns about the implementation that will happen in May with the new CARM system.
I'd like to ask Ms. Campbell and Ms. Sider a question regarding the old legacy system that is currently being used by the CBSA. If this system went down, how would it impact trade at the border?
Past Chair, Canadian Association of Importers and Exporters
If the CADEX system went down, it should not impact the border.
