Evidence of meeting #17 for International Trade in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was need.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I’d like to welcome the witnesses and to thank them for coming here.
Mr. Gendreau, earlier, you talked about the unfair importation of insulation products from Asia. You have observed that the industry is facing dumping of products from Asia that don’t meet regulatory standards.
What did you do about that?
Co-President, Garaga
We commissioned some tests through independent laboratories. We created an alliance with five of the major garage door manufacturers in Canada. We worked with the Norton Rose Fulbright lobby firm to ensure the tests were done by the book.
We also made representations to the Canada Border Services Agency, which has started to take action. We knew it had turned back three containers. That’s a good start, but it’s important to continue. That took time. We’re not asking for anything special. We just want our foreign competitors to comply with the same rules as we do. These chemicals are prohibited in Canada in line with environmental agreements.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you.
I know my colleague from Beauce spoke about his region. I’ll tell you about the Lower Laurentians. We also buy your doors.
Quebec businesses, which are majority francophone, are often located in the regions across the province. They face a number of specific challenges related to how their compliance is perceived in the American market.
Do you have any challenges with respect to language, certification and rules of origin?
Co-President, Garaga
No, we don’t.
However, we also operate in the U.S. Europe has been a big challenge. We have been asked why we don’t export to other parts of the world, but Europe, for example, has imposed many tariff barriers in our non-tariff industry. In Europe, a garage door is classified in the same category as an elevator.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you.
Mr. Tisch, earlier, you said CUSMA needs to be reviewed and that fewer barriers are needed, not more.
What were you alluding to exactly?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Ontario Chamber of Commerce
I'm sorry, but do you want me to clarify what I mean?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Ontario Chamber of Commerce
Thank you for the question.
I would say that the less we put on the table, the better off we're going to be as a country. Given the interest that all three countries have in maintaining CUSMA—we refer to it as an “extend and refresh” approach—it's about extending and refreshing the agreement, but not substantially trying to renegotiate it. Therefore, I think it's about having some very clear objectives; looking at areas that could potentially be improved—I mentioned some of those, like automotive rules of origin—and other concerns that could align the interests of the three North American nations; and focusing—the U.S. in particular—on challenges that come from China. It's about looking at where there are shared opportunities, but fundamentally understanding that the agreement is overwhelmingly beneficial, as it is, to the businesses, workers and communities of all three countries.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you.
Mr. Niquidet, we have had trade disputes for a long time. I think we have always had trade disputes about softwood lumber.
Do you think acknowledging that the Quebec system is different from that of British Columbia would address CUSMA-related issues?
President, BC Lumber Trade Council
I don't think that would necessarily address the issue. We've made a lot of changes to our systems in response to previous U.S. demands to make them more market-based. However, we're still left basically facing what we're facing today: unprecedented levels of tariffs. We think, ultimately, there needs to be a negotiated settlement to this. That may involve policy changes, but more likely not. It's really about engaging the U.S. administration at the highest level, and also addressing the U.S. industry and its concerns.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
The Carney government wants to encourage people to buy more Canadian products, including softwood lumber.
Do you think this policy will address softwood lumber issues?
President, BC Lumber Trade Council
It will to some extent. Just to give you some context in terms of our domestic market relative to the U.S. market, currently the Canadian market makes up about seven billion board feet of demand, whereas in the United States it's about 50 billion board feet. The policies of trying to build more homes with Canadian wood are helpful. Nonetheless, the estimates we see are maybe that it would add two billion board feet of additional demand, whereas we're shipping about 12 billion to the U.S., so it's not going to offset it. Again, it's helpful, but access to the U.S is absolutely critical for us.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
If we build more homes, there will be more demand for doors. I’m just saying that incidentally.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you very much.
We go now to Monsieur Savard-Tremblay for six minutes, please.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I’d like to thank the witnesses for being here today. I’d also like to thank them for their presentations.
Mr. Niquidet, obviously, there are immediate solutions. You may have seen that the Bloc Québécois is calling for some urgent measures regarding the softwood lumber industry. Beyond that, we’re here to speak about the CUSMA review or its renegotiation, depending on the form it will take.
You did say that we have already made the changes that needed to be made. In any case, in Quebec, the price of lumber released into the market is auction-based. It’s therefore consistent with free trade rules. Obviously, I don’t know as much about the British Columbia retail system as you do. My understanding is that it’s also consistent with free trade requirements and rules.
As we know, Americans are employing calculated tactics to prolong litigation for as long as possible, fully aware the outcome will not be in their favour. However, we will face challenges as long as the process lasts.
The 2020 review of the investor-state dispute settlement mechanism was not bad, but it didn’t fix everything. There is a deadline, but none for appointing an arbitrator.
Wouldn’t it be a way to provide a real framework for litigation so that it doesn’t drag on unnecessarily?
President, BC Lumber Trade Council
To your point, both British Columbia and Quebec have auction-based systems or market-based systems. The problem is that this has still resulted in duties. It's something we're challenging through the CUSMA binational panel, but it has just taken so long to get going. We feel like we have a strong case that there are no subsidies because we're auctioning our timber in a market-based fashion, but these delays have been a problem. That's why one of the key things in looking at the CUSMA review is to make sure we have enforceable timelines so we can defend our interests. That ultimately will also be helpful, I think, in getting to negotiations because we can use that as leverage.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
There should also be a framework for the time allocated to appointing an arbitrator. That’s what we have seen so far. That’s what the Americans did.
December 1st, 2025 / 3:55 p.m.
President, BC Lumber Trade Council
Yes. I think they've been delaying the appointment of panellists. Ultimately, we just need to make that timeline clear and enforceable. It just hasn't been that way. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, in one instance we filed a brief in 2017 and didn't get to a panel until 2023, and we're still waiting for that panel to rule. This has been a major problem.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
What is the ratio in numbers of public forest versus private forest in British Columbia?
President, BC Lumber Trade Council
About 95% of our land in British Columbia is public land, and the rest is private and federal.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
A look at that shows Americans are somewhat disingenuous on this file. I think the ratio for Quebec is 90% public forest and 10% private forest. That’s the difference between the two.
Even though Americans claim that public forests are a form of hidden subsidy, lumber from private forests is subject to the same tariffs. Ultimately, they are undermining their own argument. They have shown that their argument does not hold up. As it is, we’re the ones facing the problem and the challenges.
However, it should be relatively easy to at least exempt timber from the few private forests in Quebec and British Columbia.
President, BC Lumber Trade Council
That's one option. At the end of the day, it ultimately isn't about subsidies; it's really about protectionism. We have made these changes to auction off our timber and make it more like a private system, but we still see the U.S. taking these measures. We need to get to the negotiating table, and we see the CUSMA review as a possible window for doing that.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
Thank you.
Mr. Gendreau, since I have a bit of time left, I’ll ask a quick question.
You spoke about tariffs on steel and reciprocal tariffs. That’s a short-term solution.
What else could we have, based on what we hope to see in CUSMA? Can we play on the rules of origin, for example?