International Trade Committee on Dec. 4th, 2025

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

It will be incremental. Some measures have already been taken, but the impacts of the Buy Canadian policy will really start to be felt during the first and second quarters of next year.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Groleau, please, for five minutes.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here.

Minister, thank you for your presence here today.

I want to talk about the U.S. tariffs. I'm from Beauce. As you know, we're close to the U.S. border. We have lots of dealings with the Americans, and the steel and lumber sectors, among others, are being hammered by their tariffs.

Last week, I went on an economic tour in Montreal and Quebec City, and, of course, in Beauce, the entrepreneurship capital. I'm an entrepreneur myself. I know the problems entrepreneurs have to deal with, and I know what their concerns are.

Minister, none of these businesses want any money from the government. They just want the crisis with the U.S. to end. What's the situation? What do you have to say to these people?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Groleau.

As a former entrepreneur myself, I understand what entrepreneurs are going through right now. I see it, because I also go on tours, certainly in Quebec since I'm responsible for regional economic development for the province, but also across the country.

One thing is clear: When I meet with people who work in impacted sectors, I would say that there's some anxiety for sure, but I also know that they know that the President of the U.S. and his administration are very unpredictable. These people know that we're there to help them switch gears, because there's always some measure of unpredictability in every situation. We know that risk management is the most frustrating thing when you're in business.

That being said, the geopolitical risk is omnipresent right now. That's why we're offering supports and helping with cash flow. At the same time, we're trying to control what we can control. I met with several entrepreneurs from Beauce, and they told me that they want to be able to sell more of their products in Canada—in Ontario, in the Atlantic and elsewhere. They want to be able to sell them in France, in the EU, in Asia.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

But you know that it can't be done in two days, two weeks or even two years. We've been trading with the U.S. for decades.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I know. I also know that Beauce is right against the U.S. border and is very dependent on the U.S. market. But I also think that we have to work with the business community to move toward other markets.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Economic Development Canada support programs include the regional tariff response initiative, or RTRI. Eligible businesses must have a minimum sales figure of $2 million if I'm not mistaken. Over 50% of SMEs don't reach that number.

Why are you only encouraging large businesses and are you turning your back on small and medium ones?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Honestly, businesses with $2 million in sales are pretty sizable, but still count as SMEs.

Ask anyone in your local chamber of commerce in Beauce or at the École d'entrepreneuriat in Quebec City and they'll all tell you the same thing. I can understand—

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Why aren't they eligible for that program?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Mr. Groleau, if there are businesses who are truly victims of tariffs, it will be my pleasure to work with you to find solutions.

However, what we see across the country in the industries that are affected by tariffs is that the impacted businesses are major players whose supply chains include smaller businesses.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Minister, I assume that you know the different regions of Quebec. You said that you visit Beauce from time to time. As I said earlier, I meet with entrepreneurs in rural regions such as Saguenay, Est-du-Québec, Centre-du-Québec, Chaudière-Appalaches and, obviously, Beauce. Beyond the U.S. tariffs, the hottest topic is labour, or lack thereof. My region has the lowest unemployment rate in Canada. We proposed that the temporary foreign worker program be renewed in regions where the unemployment rate is under 5.5%. There's something about that in the budget, but no details.

When will you give entrepreneurs an answer? It's all they're waiting for. They're waiting for you. You're in charge.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

The Prime Minister is very much aware of that issue. He's working on it with the relevant ministers. I hear about it as well, especially in the regions.

I hope that we can work with the Conservative Party, because when the Leader of the Opposition said that he was against temporary foreign workers, it really stuck with people and made a lot of people angry.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

That did not apply to regions where the unemployment rate is under 5.5%. It was mentioned. Let's be clear about this.

Let's not get into petty politics. Honestly, we need—

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Mr. Groleau, that wasn't my intention.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

—these people.

Minister Joly, when will these businesses get an answer?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

My goal is to work with you and my other colleagues to make it happen. I know how important it is. I hear it when I go to Trois-Rivières or Quebec City. I went to Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean on many occasions. That region is hit very hard by tariffs on aluminum. I have friends, acquaintances and family members in the business community. They share that concern. We're looking for solutions.

It is my hope that we can work collaboratively on this, because politicizing the issue of temporary foreign workers is very dangerous. I thought it was very unfortunate that the Leader of the Opposition did it earlier this year.

[Jason Groleau, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Fonseca, you have five minutes.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, you're a fighter. We can see it. We can feel it in your words and in the way you speak about how you're protecting workers. I feel it. You started your remarks by talking about how important it is to be team Canada and united. I hear this everywhere. I hear it in my community. This is what I hear: “I like it when the Liberals, the Conservatives, the NDP, the Green Party and everybody work together.”

They understand how big a threat this is. People know it, and they want to see everybody working together. It is imperative. This is probably the best tool. We could talk about buy Canadian, the strategic response fund and our diversification, but the number one thing we have is keeping Canadians united as team Canada. We have to understand this. Thank you for the job you're doing on this.

You go to the front lines. You were talking about meeting with Unifor and Lana Payne, bringing in the CEOs and having everybody at the table, understanding that we have to get to the right solution, the right deal.

Can you tell me how you work through that process, how you meet with the front lines and how you get that message across?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

It's done in different ways. My department is very much in solution mode. We get many companies coming to see us—businesses and entrepreneurs—that want either to get help, because they're in the sector impacted by the tariffs, or to adapt, pivot or invest. The difference is quite stark.

Right now, we're the only G7 country that has zero tariffs overall in our economy. I was just in Japan and South Korea. They both have 15% tariffs. We know that's the case for the EU. We know the U.K. is at 10%.

In certain sectors, things are going well and our plan is working. I just mentioned that 67,000 jobs were created in October and 60,000 the month before, in September. However, in the sectors impacted by the tariffs, the pain is real. We provide information to the negotiating team, for example, on what the impacts of the tariffs are and, basically, what the different sectors that are under us are. There are many different sectors, except natural resources and energy.

That's how Minister LeBlanc, the clerk, the chief of staff, the Prime Minister and Kirsten Hillman, our ambassador to the U.S., are able to negotiate. Basically, it's market information that we provide to the negotiators.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you.

I also hear on the street that people want to buy Canadian.

At a bigger level, when we're looking at some of our infrastructure or building our homes, our Build Canada Homes program, how does your office work with industry to have them retool or change their business dynamic to take this opportunity to grow our country?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I'll give you the example of steel. We haven't talked about it, but the only Canadian-owned steel plant is Algoma. We were very preoccupied with what was going on at Algoma, even before the tariffs. Then there were the 25% tariffs, which eventually became 50% tariffs.

I made calls to Seaspan, the shipyard in Vancouver—which is actually part of our national shipbuilding strategy—to make sure they would be taking orders and buying steel from Algoma. I called Jim Irving at Irving Shipbuilding and met with the CEO in Halifax to make sure they would also buy from Algoma. I really worked with Dofasco in Hamilton, with new projects to have steel cans and different ways for them to make the right type of steel.

One thing that is really important to remember when it comes to the steel sector is that the entire business model has been developed on servicing and supporting the U.S. automakers on the other side of the border. This business plan doesn't work anymore with 50% tariffs. By the way, the 50% tariffs are on all steel industries around the world.

This is why it's really important right now—I'm heading to Algoma in the coming days—to meet the workers, the union and the leadership team so that they will be able—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Minister, I'm sorry to interrupt. Thank you very much.

Mr. Savard-Tremblay for two and a half minutes, please.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Thank you.

Let's go back to the Buy Canadian policy. Have you heard about concerns or pushback from the American side?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I'm not involved in the negotiations on a daily basis, but I personally have never heard of any concerns. Let's not forget that the Americans themselves have protectionist legislation in place for procurement.