Evidence of meeting #20 for International Trade in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cptpp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
Do you think it might even be wise to delay ratification until there is sufficient agreement on sanitary and phytosanitary standards?
President, Canadian Cattle Association
Yes, that's exactly our position.
As I mentioned in my opening statement, we think there are opportunities for modest changes to be made in the U.K. to allow for access. It is not based on science that we cannot access the market, and any leverage that we have should be on the table.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
Do you think it might be a good idea to formally establish—as is the case with many agreements—a review mechanism every two, three, or four years, for example, at reasonable intervals?
President, Canadian Cattle Association
Honestly, I think we are willing to try anything. We have struggled to make use of some of the provisions in the CETA for addressing our SPS-related issues. There is a desire to truly diversify our beef market, so we're ready and willing to try something new.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
Thank you for your comments, Mr. Fulton. They will be very useful in helping us do our work and make the most of this agreement—which is worthwhile in itself—but also in strengthening our bargaining position and enabling meat producers to increase their exports.
My next question is for Mr. Buckle.
You mentioned the defence industry. As you know, Quebec has one of the largest and most impressive aerospace clusters in the world. After Seattle and Toulouse, it is one of the industry's largest hubs.
Do you happen to have any examples of collaboration between the British industry and the greater Montreal industry?
Vice-President, The British Canadian Chamber of Trade and Commerce
Yes, for sure. One of the most iconic names in British manufacturing is Rolls-Royce, and Rolls-Royce has a long history in Quebec and Canada.
Back in the day, Bombardier was a very big investor in what used to be called Short Brothers in Northern Ireland. Investissement Québec has a long history of investing in the U.K. and last year announced, I think, just over $3 billion of investment in the U.K. nuclear power industry.
The importance of Quebec to the U.K. economy cannot be overstated. It's a tremendous investor. It's a huge opportunity for the aerospace industry and other manufacturing industries. I know there's a lot of interest in the U.K. in promoting this trade.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
In fact, after the United States, the United Kingdom is Quebec's second-largest export partner, I believe. It is very, very far behind the United States—there's no comparison—but it's still second in terms of exports.
That said, you're saying that many partnerships and collaborations are under way. Would the agreement improve anything, or is there not necessarily an impact on that?
Vice-President, The British Canadian Chamber of Trade and Commerce
In terms of manufacturing, following the collapse of the negotiations around a new bilateral agreement between Canada and the U.K., some things dropped out of the continuity agreement, such as car manufacturing. That's not a big industry in itself in Quebec, but obviously Quebec is a supplier to the industry.
I used to work in the aluminum industry. It's aluminum for our English-speaking North American friends and aluminium for our French friends. The increase in the exports of aluminum to the rest of the world following the tariffs that have been put on it just shows how flexible Quebec can be as an industry and how important those global markets can be.
Conservative
Tamara Kronis Conservative Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I'm grateful to be here.
I want to thank all the witnesses for their presentations.
Ms. Melville-Gray, I'd like to thank you for your presentation about the 127,000 Canadians from the U.K. who have a U.K. state pension that the U.K. refuses to index to inflation.
As you know, almost 3,000 of the people in that community live in my community. I'm wondering if you could share with us in practical terms what a frozen pension means for a senior living on a fixed income in Canada, especially in the context of rising costs for housing, food and health care.
Board Chair, Canadian Alliance of British Pensioners
It means that they start to reduce the amount of food they eat. They cannot support themselves and they start calling on the Canadian health care system and support system for other costs and so on.
If you've been here for 20 or 30 years, you're down about 50% of the income that you should be getting. You can't survive on that kind of funding in this current inflationary time. People split pills. They don't take their medications. They go to food banks. It's really a tragedy.
Conservative
Tamara Kronis Conservative Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Thank you.
Many of these pensioners paid into the U.K. system for decades. How does your organization see the fairness of having their pension value permanently frozen simply because they chose to retire in Canada?
Board Chair, Canadian Alliance of British Pensioners
Well, it's a current issue in that people often come here to be with their families, their grandchildren; they come to support their kids and their grandkids. However, it's also a future issue...listening to the other members today.
Why would somebody come from the U.K. when...? Let's say they've worked for 20 years in the United Kingdom. They've paid in. They come here at the peak of their career to find out that if they choose to stay, they will not get a yearly increase in their pension. We would at least expect to keep up with the inflationary amounts, but that doesn't happen.
Conservative
Tamara Kronis Conservative Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
As you explained, this is a problem that applies to some countries and not others. Have you ever been given a justification as to why the U.K. provides annual increases in some countries but not in others?
Board Chair, Canadian Alliance of British Pensioners
The U.K. states that it's because they do not have a reciprocal social security agreement. We actually do have a reciprocal social security agreement, but it does not include pensions from the U.K. to Canada. It's simply a couple of paragraphs that are missing. It's a postwar thing that started with mostly Commonwealth countries. Fifty Commonwealth countries are frozen. Every single one of the CPTPP countries is frozen, and it's an anomaly. They pay six out of 10 overseas pensioners. They do not increase the annual amount for four out of 10 overseas pensioners.
Conservative
Tamara Kronis Conservative Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
What role could the Government of Canada be playing in advocating for our British pensioners with frozen pensions?
Board Chair, Canadian Alliance of British Pensioners
We need the government to advocate on our behalf; we are pushed aside by the U.K. because they feel we're far away and they don't need to deal with us. They've actually stated as recently as yesterday that their policy is to spend any pension money only on U.K. pensioners, which would make sense if they weren't paying all of the ones in Europe and in the U.S.A. specifically, as well as in many other countries.
It's a discriminatory policy. We need Canada to stand up for us, to help us bring the U.K. to the table. All we get are polite refusals. When Canada asks the question as well, it's politely pushed away. It's time for Canada to take a stand.
Conservative
Tamara Kronis Conservative Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
This committee is here to advise the Government of Canada in that regard. If you could recommend one, is there any sort of concrete action that this committee should consider taking to support you in your quest?
Board Chair, Canadian Alliance of British Pensioners
We would ask that you take a pause and require, as I put it in my opening remarks, that the government actually come to the table to negotiate a social security agreement that is truly two-way—reciprocal. People need to be treated fairly and equally.
Conservative
Tamara Kronis Conservative Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
In the few seconds I have left, I want to turn to Mr. Buckle. First of all, congratulations on 75 years. Has the British Chamber of Trade and Commerce been active on this file? Is there anything you can add?
Vice-President, The British Canadian Chamber of Trade and Commerce
Some of our members are also explicitly members of Edwina's group. As I am from the chamber, I'm happy to leave her to speak to this because she's much more of an expert on it, and she has focused on it. As I say, some of our members—potentially me too; I'm not that far from becoming a pensioner myself—are already in that position, and she and her organization have done a tremendous job of raising the profile of this issue that I prefer to leave it to her.
Liberal
Liberal
Steeve Lavoie Liberal Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses for being with us today.
Mr. Buckle, I congratulate you on your organization's 75th anniversary. It seems to be in very good shape. If I'm still here in 25 years, I will be quite pleased.
I'd like to talk about economics. I represent the riding of Beauport—Limoilou, in Quebec. I spent my career in economics, including 20 years in banking. I was also president and CEO of the Quebec City Chamber of Commerce and Industry for four years.
You spoke earlier about improving trade conditions and removing barriers. In addition, you spoke with my colleague about the sectors that could benefit from the United Kingdom's accession, including aerospace defence. However, I have a question.
I asked the previous witness a question, and I would like to know if you agree with his answer. I asked what would change tomorrow morning for the average person and for businesses. I am thinking of the businesses in my riding, Beauport—Limoilou. I was told that it would not change much, but that it sends a message. In other words, Canada is sending a message to the rest of the world that it wants to continue diversifying its markets. Do you agree with that?
If not, do you have any concrete examples?
Vice-President, The British Canadian Chamber of Trade and Commerce
I don't think there's going to be a huge difference. This is not like it was when Donald Trump announced his tariffs. There was an immediate global reaction to that. It's not going to have that kind of impact.
The important thing, as I said earlier, is that it's partly about shining a light on the opportunities and letting people know that Canada is open. Partly, it's about showing the rest of the world that this group that started with 11 members has already grown to 12 and is open to grow to include other countries if they're prepared to sign up for the values we share.
Speaking to our British Chamber of Commerce friends in Costa Rica, they're very excited about what this would mean for them in how they can do business and the standards of business in terms of equity and the environmental standards they want to stand by, but for which they need the support of other countries. Canada, the U.K., Australia and New Zealand can all offer such guidance through this organization. As for what people in Beauport will see, it's not a great change.
In fact, I played rugby in Beauport 20 years ago.
That's the only time I've been to Beauport.
I don't think they'll see a lot of difference tomorrow, but the point is that we're going in one direction when a certain other country is going in another direction.
February 3rd, 2026 / 12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Steeve Lavoie Liberal Beauport—Limoilou, QC
You're talking about our citizens and businesses from the perspective of the markets they belong to.
I'll take this opportunity to ask you another question, which is more geographic in nature.
Most of our trade is with the US, for obvious geographical reasons. Within ten years, we want to double our exports to Europe and Asia. When their companies do business here in America, they cross the ocean and come to the US. They also want to diversify their markets and come to Canada. We agree that, for them, there is no cost difference between going to Canada and the United States, since it's the same route. For us, going to the United States rather than Europe is not the same thing.
Do you think this situation could lead to a trade imbalance between us and the Europeans? They just have to load the boat, so to speak, and then come further north to Canada, whereas we would require infrastructure and new roads. It's really much more complex. By the time we build all that, do you think there could be a trade imbalance?
