Evidence of meeting #20 for International Trade in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cptpp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you.
Earlier, you said that Great Britain's pork production is not sufficient to meet its own demand, but that it does not really want to allow our meat into its market. Do you know which proteins people prefer to consume in Great Britain? Is it lamb or chicken, for example?
Are they rejecting our meat because pork and beef are not really their preferred proteins and they want to close their market for local consumption?
February 3rd, 2026 / 11:55 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Director, Canadian Pork Council
They do like pork; that's not the issue. They would like to see a little more domestic production, but the life of a pork producer is a hard one. Many are leaving the industry, causing local production to decline and increasing the country's need to import. Protein consumption in Great Britain is roughly the same as ours, if you look at the distribution of proteins in percentages. So it's not really because the market doesn't promote pork. It's more because they want to encourage pork producers to stay in the industry in Great Britain. They want to protect their own production. Under a free trade agreement, local production sometimes has to become more competitive.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Perhaps I misunderstood what you said earlier, but given that their production is insufficient, they cannot export their pork.
Chair, Canadian Pork Council
In fact, in a context of market liberalization, they do export a little, as does Canada. Although we export, we also import. This trade balance is still heavily negative. So, even though they export a little, they have to import a significant amount for their own consumption.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you.
I now have a question for Mr. Nankivell, who is in Singapore at the moment. I don't know what the time difference is between us.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada
There's a 13-hour time difference.
Liberal
Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
That's what I thought. I've had the opportunity to travel to Singapore, in connection with the first round of negotiations for the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership, or CPTPP. You are indeed far away. Thank you for joining us.
Do you see the CPTPP as a bridge between Asia and Great Britain, which is in Europe? Do you have a positive view of this?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada
Yes. Essentially, it's an important step because it represents an expansion of the agreement beyond the region itself. In addition, as we already know, it is becoming an agreement of [Technical difficulty—Editor].
President and Chief Executive Officer, Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada
This is a high-quality agreement with high standards and some of the most modern provisions. It is an opportunity to build a new network of middle powers that share the same values and have adopted a system that is in line with what Canada wants. That is why we consider this step so important, not only for symbolic reasons, but also because of the concrete impact it will have in the medium term.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you to our witnesses for coming back to see us. I hope the next time we see you we'll be celebrating, having somehow overcome some of the issues that you raised.
We will suspend for a moment before we bring in our other witnesses.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
I'm calling the meeting back to order.
With us today, from the Canadian Alliance of British Pensioners, we have Edwina Melville-Gray, the chair of the board, by video conference. From the Canadian Cattle Association, by video conference, we have Tyler Fulton, president, and Jennifer Babcock, chief government and international affairs officer. From the British Canadian Chamber of Trade and Commerce, we have Martin Buckle, vice-president.
Welcome to you all. Thank you for taking the time to join us today.
We will start with Ms. Melville-Gray for an opening statement of up to five minutes, please.
Edwina Melville-Gray Board Chair, Canadian Alliance of British Pensioners
Thank you, Madam Chair and honourable members of the Standing Committee on International Trade, for the opportunity to provide you with testimony today.
The Canadian Alliance of British Pensioners supports strong trade relations between Canada and the United Kingdom. We welcome U.K. accession to the CPTPP. We do not oppose Bill C-13, but Canada should not ratify this agreement without first securing equity and reciprocity for the people who built both our countries.
More than 100,000 U.K. state pensioners live in Canada. They worked, contributed and paid into the U.K. system for decades. They earned their pensions, but because they chose to retire in Canada, their pensions are frozen forever. If they lived in the U.S.A., the EU or Turkey, they would receive full annual increases. In Canada, they do not. The only difference is geography. This is discrimination by postal code.
For example, Anne Puckridge is 101 and a Second World War veteran. She moved to Canada in 2001 to be near family. Her pension has been frozen for 25 years at £72.50, or $135 a week. Had she moved to the U.S., today she would receive £180, or $336 a week. She did everything right. She served, contributed and followed the rules, yet she has been penalized for choosing Canada. With inflation exceeding 60% since 2001, her purchasing power has collapsed, and Canadian taxpayers now help fill the gap.
Through GIS and other income supports, Canada now spends significantly more than $200 million annually supporting British pensioners who should be supported by the U.K. system they paid into. This is a moral and fiscal issue. Globally, the pensions of more than 400,000 U.K. pensioners are frozen. Nearly 90% of these pensioners live in the CPTPP countries, each and every one, with most living in Canada and Australia. This reflects outdated postwar arrangements that no longer match modern mobility or modern values.
Canada uprates CPP and OAS abroad, including in the U.K. The U.K. does not reciprocate. Successive Canadian governments have raised this issue politely, respectfully and persistently. Nothing has changed. U.K. officials admit that the policy has not been reviewed in 70 years. Why? It is because there has been no leverage until now.
Bill C-13 gives Canada leverage. Once ratification occurs, the leverage disappears. Canada is being asked to grant permanent trade privileges, market access, tariff elimination and investment flows worth billions while leaving pension injustice untouched. That sends the wrong signal.
As Prime Minister Mark Carney warned, middle powers can no longer afford to “go along to get along”, which is what Canada has been doing on frozen pensions. This is the moment to insist that trade reciprocity includes people, not just products and capital.
U.K. treasury officials cite uprating costs of £930 million. That assumes full historical equalization, something the U.K. has never done in past agreements.
Official U.K. FOI data shows that the real cost of uprating pensions in Canada would be about £13 million, or $24 million, for 2027-28. That is a rounding error on a U.K. pension budget of £146 billion per annum.
The barrier is not money; it is political will. We are not asking to rewrite the CPTPP. We are not asking to block accession. We are asking for a responsible pause, a pause to secure a formal U.K. commitment to amend the reciprocal social security agreement to include annual uprating. That is not obstruction; it is good governance. It is standing up for residents of Canada. It protects Canadian taxpayers, and it strengthens Canada's credibility.
We therefore ask this committee to recommend that Bill C-13 not proceed until Canada obtains a formal U.K. commitment to enter negotiations on annual uprating for U.K. state pensioners residing in Canada. We also ask the ESDC and Global Affairs Canada to actively pursue a modernized, bilateral, reciprocal social security agreement with the U.K. that explicitly provides for annual pension uprating. Trade access should not move forward on a one-way basis while pension justice remains frozen.
After 70 years, it is time for equity and reciprocity. This is the moment, as Mark Carney said, to “tak[e] the sign out of the window” and for Canada to act.
Thank you.
Tyler Fulton President, Canadian Cattle Association
Good morning. My name is Tyler Fulton. I'm the president of the Canadian Cattle Association. Together with my wife, I have a beef cattle operation in Birtle, Manitoba.
Today I'm joined by Jennifer Babcock. We're both dialing in from our U.S. counterpart's meeting, CattleCon, this week. Unfortunately, we can't join you in person. As you can imagine, trade with the U.S. is our highest priority. Our leadership team is on the ground working closely with our friends south of the border.
That said, we're pleased to join the committee virtually today to discuss the U.K.'s accession to CPTPP, or Bill C-13.
We want to clarify CCA's position on the U.K. accession to CPTPP, as well as to address our ongoing concerns with the U.K.'s non-tariff barriers.
CCA was opposed to the U.K.'s accession from the beginning due to the U.K.'s not following the high standards of the CPTPP agreement. Once the U.K. left the EU, we hoped it would remove non-tariff barriers and be a trusted trading partner for Canada. However, with the continuity agreement between Canada and the U.K., an agreement that was always understood to be a temporary bridge before a new agreement, we saw the U.K.'s trade practices in action. The U.K. continued to follow the EU's example and put up non-tariff barriers to keep our beef out of its market. When the U.K. wanted to accede to CPTPP, we were opposed because it would water down the agreement's high standards and set a dangerous precedent for other countries wanting to join.
The CPTPP continues to be a positive agreement for Canadian beef producers, particularly in Japan. We also see market potential with other Asian markets, such as Vietnam.
With its veto, Canada had an important negotiating lever with the U.K. However, Canada did not use its veto. Instead, it allowed the U.K. to join before addressing the non-tariff barriers. Unfortunately, Canada lost negotiating power the second it allowed the U.K. into the CPTPP without getting something in return. It was for this reason that CCA asked the government to give notice to the U.K. to pull out of the continuity agreement, with the intent of restarting bilateral negotiations in which our issues could be addressed.
Last June, Canada and the U.K. committed, through parallel exchanges of letters, to work together on issues of relevance to trade in the meat sector, yet no progress has been made on addressing any of the meat issues or ensuring meaningful trade access.
Following the Prime Minister's announcement about setting up a technical working group to address market access issues, there have been no indications of progress on Canadian beef access.
We urge the government not to give anything further to the U.K. until our non-tariff barriers are addressed, using whatever mechanisms are available. Resolving these barriers would be consistent with the scientific findings, would not cost the U.K. any money and would allow Canadian beef the opportunity to get into and compete in its market, as it does for other CPTPP countries.
CCA continues to offer its support to the Government of Canada to reach the best trade deal possible for Canadian beef producers and all Canadians. The pathway for economic growth and trade diversification is through meaningful, rules-based trade.
In these uncertain geopolitical times, Canadian beef producers need every opportunity to diversify their markets with trusted trading partners. At a time when the government is looking to diversify trade, we should focus our trade negotiations toward looking, with like-minded allies, to find solutions that benefit both economies.
We look forward to your questions and to getting into more detail. Thanks.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you very much.
Mr. Buckle, the floor is yours for up to five minutes, sir.
Martin Buckle Vice-President, The British Canadian Chamber of Trade and Commerce
I'd like to thank the committee for the invitation to appear before you today.
The British Canadian Chamber of Trade and Commerce was founded in June 1951 under our original name, the British Canadian Trade Association. This is our 75th anniversary year.
The chamber exists to promote the transatlantic business interests of our members and stakeholders, and our mission includes four objectives: to promote the bilateral development of trade, commerce and investment between the U.K. and Canada; to help create better understanding between the Canadian and British business communities; to provide opportunities for members to meet for business and social networking; and to represent the opinion of the British business community in Canada on trade, commerce, finance and industry, and to represent the Canadian business community in the U.K. in the same respects.
It is the fourth pillar that brings me here today to speak in favour of Bill C‑13.
The total trade between our two countries varies from year to year, particularly as commodity prices change, but the U.K. remains Canada's third-largest export market, and the two-way balance of trade in goods and services exceeded $50 billion in the 12 months to the end of June 2025. The U.K.'s financial trade with Canada exceeds that of Italy and Spain combined, despite the size of those two countries and their proximity to the U.K.
Most of our trade is covered by the continuity agreement signed after Brexit, and a new bilateral agreement is much needed but seemingly still some way off. The CPTPP is an opportunity for our two countries to affirm our mutual commitment to fair trade that does more than simply remove tariffs. It's a high-standard, forward-looking framework that includes strong commitments to digital trade, data flows, intellectual property, labour and environmental protections. These are rules that Canada supports and even helped design.
The U.K.'s entry also strengthens the CPTPP itself. Britain brings economic weight, investment capacity and strong alignment with Canada's approach to labour and environmental standards. The inclusion of the U.K. makes the CPTPP an even more attractive partner for future members, reinforcing a rules-based trading order that brings social, environmental and economic benefits.
COVID taught the world a lesson in supply chain resilience. The Russian invasion of Ukraine gave us another supply shock, and extreme tariffs on trade with the U.S., yet another. The CPTPP gives U.K. and Canadian companies more flexibility and more places to source, to process and to export. It spreads risk and strengthens our combined economic security.
After Brexit, there was an uptick in U.K. companies' reaching out to our chamber to learn more about Canada and doing business here. After the introduction of tariffs on many goods heading from Canada into the U.S.A., we started to see an uptick in Canadian companies looking to trade with the U.K. Changes in the global structure of trade focus attention on both the opportunities and the challenges those changes introduce. The spotlight illuminates everybody.
Last week, we joined Canadian and Scottish businesses online to prepare for Scotland-Canada business week at the end of April 2026. This initiative offers a unique opportunity to connect Scottish and Canadian businesses looking for new export or investment opportunities. Meanwhile, the West Highland Chamber of Commerce will be making another trade mission to Nova Scotia this March.
Last year, Virgin Atlantic opened a new route between Toronto and London Heathrow. In partnership with WestJet, the carrier is now able to open Canada to more travellers than ever before, whilst its onward connections from London to Europe, India, Africa and the Middle East enable greater opportunities for Canadian companies looking to access global markets.
This year, starting in May, WestJet will connect four times weekly with Cardiff, the capital of Wales and gateway to the western parts of the U.K.
I don't want to upset any of our Italian friends, but if Wales makes it to the World Cup this year, fans will have the easiest route ever to visit Toronto and support their team.
The social, economic and cultural ties between our countries are flourishing, and this bill gives Parliament the opportunity to support our values, our businesses and our vision for a flourishing future.
Thank you for your time.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you very much, Mr. Buckle, and congratulations on the 75th anniversary. You're certainly seeing a lot of accomplishments.
We'll now go to our members.
Mr. Mantle, you have six minutes, please.
Conservative
Jacob Mantle Conservative York—Durham, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to our witnesses for their testimony this morning and afternoon.
My first questions will be directed to the Cattle Association.
Your association has previously described the deal that we're currently considering, the U.K.'s accession, as a bad deal. Is that still your position?
President, Canadian Cattle Association
Yes. To be clear, we have shipped no Canadian beef into the U.K. for the last two years. On the other hand, there's more than $40 million in beef, I think, flowing from the U.K. into Canada. When it's that one-sided, I think it's pretty clear there's a problem.
Conservative
Jacob Mantle Conservative York—Durham, ON
Thank you.
We had officials from Global Affairs present at the committee last week, and they informed us that it's the intention of the Government of Canada to maintain the existing trade continuity agreement. Are you aware of that?