International Trade Committee on Feb. 5th, 2026

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

First and foremost, for the record, I want to make sure that I say this: Forced labour is definitely unacceptable anywhere in the world, and we must ensure that our global supply chains remain free from these type of abuses. It's something that we prioritize in our conversations. There is a chapter in the actual agreement on labour provisions. We need to make sure we continue having that conversation, not just with one country, but with all of our trading partners.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Does this chapter contain only principles, or are there any binding elements, such as provisions and mechanisms? Is there any substance to it?

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Labour provisions are enforceable. They are enforceable and are subject to the CEPA's dispute settlement mechanism as a matter of last resort, if a serious matter arises between the parties that cannot be resolved through co-operation or consultation. To answer your question, yes, there are enforceable measures.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Does the agreement provide for a concrete judicial mechanism for potential victims?

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

There are enforceable provisions in the agreement, which we're happy to get you more information on.

Coming back to your question on the ISDS, I know that was an important question from you just last week from this committee. I think it's important. I have some information to share with you in terms of ISDS, because it was a very important question from you and I want to make sure I endeavour to follow up.

You asked how many cases were brought forward. There were 37 ISDS cases that were brought forward against Canada: 33 under the NAFTA or CUSMA, one under the CPTPP, and three under FIPA agreements. Twenty-one cases out of the 37 led to favourable outcomes for Canada. If you look at the settlements, Canada has been awarded roughly over $4 billion, which is 20 times more than what we've paid out.

You asked the question on ISDS mechanisms and why it's important for Canada and Canadian companies. These numbers are some of the facts that present some of the wins that Canadian companies have gotten. Canadian investors are among the most frequent users of the ISDS, and we are similar to what France is doing, what the Spaniards are doing and, of course, what the Germans are doing as well.

ISDS, as I said last week, and I am saying it again, provides certainty for our businesses and presents opportunities that they move forward with.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

On that point, I strongly disagree with you.

I wanted to talk to you about the investor-state dispute settlement mechanism later, but since we’re discussing it now, I’ll take this opportunity to do so.

I imagine that you are aware, from your discussions, of the case of the Canadian mining company Baru Gold, which wants to start industrial gold mining on the small island of Sangihe. We know that there are conflicts between the local population and the Canadian mining company.

Is it true or false that, if the government were to ultimately decide that it did not want this project, the investor-state dispute settlement mechanism would allow the company to take legal action against the Indonesian state to impose its project?

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

These mechanisms are in mutual recognition from both parties, so it's not one-sided. These are two parties coming to the table saying that they recognize ISDS, and that's why there are provisions in this agreement.

If you look at why we did it, the facts that I just read into the record are very important stats for people to know why we have ISDS dispute resolutions that go forward. Canada has been one of the most frequent users of ISDS mechanisms, and they're working.

Of course, when you talk about mining, we encourage all of our companies to operate ethically, with the highest of environmental and labour standards, and we'll continue doing that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We'll go on to Mr. Mantle, please, for five minutes.

[Jacob Mantle, Conservative, York—Durham, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Following up on the question of steel and Indonesia, I've heard rumours that the government is considering lowering the steel TRQs for FTA and non-FTA countries. Do you have a comment on that, Minister?

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Yes, there are some certain derivatives of steel products that we simply don't make in Canada, and this is an ongoing conversation that we have with suppliers from countries around the world. This is an ongoing conversation that I have with many trade ministers from around the world about certain products that we may not produce.

We, of course, encourage our manufacturers to produce. I was at Dofasco in Hamilton not too long ago, and we talked about these measures of making sure that we're there to protect our industries. Of course, we believe in free trade but, at this very moment, this is an extraordinary measure that we took to protect our industries.

To come back to your point, there are certain derivatives of steel products that we simply do not produce, and, as our industry catches up to that, we need to be able to support the construction of LNG sites in B.C. We have seven under different phases of development. They use a lot of steel and aluminum, and some of that product we may not make in Canada, so we need to be open to having those conversations.

[Jacob Mantle, Conservative, York—Durham, ON]

I appreciate the comments on the derivatives, but I'm more interested to know if the government is going to lower the TRQ levels for FTA and non-FTA countries from their current levels.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

This is an ongoing conversation, and it's being led by the finance minister, so I don't want to overstep, but it's an active conversation. We're working and consulting with stakeholders across the country, and we'll continue having that conversation in terms of steel.

As I said at the very beginning, steel is used in our defence industries, and we need to protect our industries, ensuring that they last and they're not just wiped out because of other countries' dumping into Canada. It will also give them opportunities. Right now, when you look at what steel companies produce—

[Jacob Mantle, Conservative, York—Durham, ON]

You've answered my question. I appreciate it. I'm sorry; I don't mean to cut you off too much, but I have limited time.

On Indonesia specifically, you spoke in response to Mr. Chambers' interventions about forecasts. Well, the chief economist for Global Affairs did do a forecast on Indonesia and, as Mr. Chambers pointed out, noted that 88% of goods already have duty-free access. Only 9% would receive additional benefits, and 3% would continue to face high duties.

The chief economist in his report—or her report, I'm not sure—noted that “the projected economic gains are modest.” I think we heard that they were less than one half of 1%. It's better than nothing, I think we all agree on that, but I think it's important that we have truth in what's happening. When you announced this deal, the PMO release said it was “game-changing”. I guess I would just say that less than half of 1% is not game-changing, in my view.

That leads me to the issue of diversification in general. I think, no matter how many deals with Indonesia or Indonesia-like deals you bring to the committee, it's not going to replace the elephant in the room, which, of course, is still our lack of a deal with the United States. Three quarters of our exports go to the U.S., so, whether we like it or not, we have to work with the Americans. I just don't believe that this elbows-up anti-Americanism is helpful. I don't believe that drawing an equivalence between China and the United States, as the Prime Minister did in his travels, is helpful. I don't believe that threatening to withdraw from the F-35 purchase is helpful. I would say that taking opportunities to antagonize our neighbour is not helpful.

What I want to ask you is, will you commit, as the Minister of International Trade, to helping to lower the temperature and stop with some of the anti-American rhetoric that I have heard from your government?

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

To answer your question, quite frankly, there are industry leaders and stakeholders, representing hundreds of thousands of workers across this country, that have spoken in favour of this agreement. This agreement is a win for western Canadian farmers. Indonesia's growing demand for high-quality grains opens the door for more Canadian exports. It's not just me saying that; it's the industry.

Instead of minimizing this agreement, I think we should be celebrating the access farmers are getting. There were other governments before.... I think someone on your side mentioned Prime Minister Harper. He signed a smaller agreement, and we celebrate that, because that's what we need to do as Canadians.

[Jacob Mantle, Conservative, York—Durham, ON]

Minister, I agree with you. This is better than nothing. Absolutely. My point is that this will not replace the problem we have, and that's what I want your commitment on: bringing down the tone with the Americans.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

You've heard me talk about the U.S. as an important trading partner. That's what we'll continue to engage with. I've spent 13 years in the international trade sector, so I know on the ground the hundreds of businesses that trade with the U.S. I've helped them trade with the U.S., and I think we'll continue to engage with the U.S. This is not to replace the U.S.; this is to build on our existing relationships to continue to diversify into other markets and to give our workers, our farmers and our exporters more opportunities to sell. When it comes down to that, that's what I look at.

Yes, right now, that market is not the fifth-largest economy, but it will be in the coming years, when you look at its growing middle class. If you wait until that time, the opportunity cost for Canada may go a lot higher. You strike when the iron's hot, and that's what this government is doing.

There are many smaller agreements that were signed, previous to this Liberal government, by Conservative governments with smaller countries. I think you need to celebrate every single opportunity you create for workers, and that's what the industry is saying.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Mr. Fonseca.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

It's good to see you, Minister.

Minister, you know full well, as everybody in this room knows, that Canada is a leader in the mining sector. I always think of next month, as we come into March, as mining month here in Canada, because it's when Canada hosts the convention of the Prospectors and Developers Association of Canada, also known as PDAC. It's one of the largest mineral exploration and mining gatherings in the world. It brings together more than 25,000 delegates from over 125 countries. This convention is really a global showcase for us, for Canada's leadership in mining, for clean technology and for critical minerals, and it's essential to the global energy transition and advanced manufacturing.

You also know full well, Minister, being from Brampton—I'm from Mississauga—that we have many organizations and companies that employ many people in the supply chain of the mining sector. With this agreement between Canada and Indonesia now before us, can you explain to this committee how the tariff reductions and improved market access in this agreement will directly benefit Canadian mining companies, equipment suppliers and service providers? Many of them are from our area of the GTA, but they're right across Canada. How will this help these companies seeking to do business in Indonesia?

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Absolutely.

Through you, Madam Chair, I want to thank the member for his important work on the committee and, of course, his leadership in the Peel region, especially in Mississauga.

When I think about mining, I think about Hatch engineering in Mississauga. I think about their 2,000-plus workers, who are not too far from the riding you represent, Mr. Fonseca. I look at that and think about the opportunities I've spoken of with my counterpart Minister Budi Santoso on what Indonesia is doing in the mining sector and how much they appreciate Canada. Canada is a world leader. You spoke about PDAC and the delegations that come from all around the world. We're the financing capital of the world in terms of mining, but we're also known for sustainable environmental practices in mining and the way we mine resources out of the ground.

Look at Indonesia. It has vast reserves of nickel, copper, gold and, of course, critical minerals that are very significant to many different sectors, including aerospace and defence. This presents a lot of opportunities for Canada's and Indonesia's mining sectors.

Our mining sector supports roughly $60 billion of our GDP, so it's huge. It's huge in communities across Canada. When I come back to it, I think about the employees who are supported by the sector. It's not just about the billions of dollars in GDP. It's also about over 430,000 Canadian workers in the industry. Whether it's in extraction, technology or engineering services, it presents a huge potential to Canada.

In talking to the Indonesians.... There are many actors in this mining space, but Canada is an actor that's always well received. Wherever we go around the world, our mining companies are world-renowned. They're global champions, and we're going to continue making sure they're represented through many different trade agreements with access to resources and minerals around the world.

Coming back to the example I gave you of Hatch, I think beyond Hatch. That is an engineering company that works on different mining projects, but it also works on many infrastructure projects. It's already doing some infrastructure projects in Indonesia. Indonesia, from what I've been told, is going to be investing close to $200 billion in the next five years in different infrastructure projects, such as roads, bridges, ports, logistics, mass transit, energy transition, water and social infrastructure. This presents a world of opportunities, not only for Hatch but also for companies like AtkinsRéalis, which has over 9,000 employees across Canada. Those engineering services, supported by Canadian workers, are important to mention for the record here, and for those watching at home.

It's also important to mention EDC. It has an office in Jakarta, and it's looking to open opportunities for Canadian firms in infrastructure, including energy, transport and clean tech, to explore opportunities there as well. There's a reason EDC has a footprint in Jakarta. There's a reason Hatch is operating, already, in Indonesia. There's a reason AtkinsRéalis is there. It's that Indonesia is very fast-growing, as I mentioned to our friend earlier, in terms of what they're doing and how this benefits Canada regarding opportunities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to Monsieur Savard-Tremblay for two and a half minutes.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, let’s talk about the environment now.

You said that you encourage mining companies to be environmentally responsible. Encouraging them is probably not enough—we’ve seen this all over the world—especially since there is no real complaint mechanism.

I would like to talk to you about an industry that is particularly notorious for destroying vast areas of forest to make way for plantations, often by slash-and-burn methods: the palm oil industry. It is growing, and with the lowering of tariff quotas, we can assume that it will get worse. These areas are also often controlled by warlords. This is so worrying that the European Union has even set up a special group on EU measures targeting palm oil and biofuels.

Is there anything concrete on this? Was it discussed in the negotiations leading up to the agreement?

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Environmental standards always come up in our conversations in terms of what more we can do to encourage countries we do free trade with. There are provisions in the agreement to talk about environment and labour standards. You mentioned palm oil. Of course, it's something I'm very aware of. Again, in the agreement, there is a section on environment and what we encourage our partners to do. We'll continue having those conversations.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

You say there will be conversations, efforts and encouragement, but what else is there? Is there anything concrete in the chapter on the environment?

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

I think that when you open up avenues of free trade agreements, you also open up avenues of dialogue to continue having a conversation and to continue to encourage countries in what Canada has learned in its past. We're not perfect as a country either. It's an ongoing discussion. I don't think we should be lecturing other countries. We should be pragmatic and principled in our approach, and that's what we're doing. Those conversations will continue, in terms of what more we can learn from each other on environmental practices, protecting our environment and standing up for labour rights. That's what we'll continue to have to do.

When you look at an FTA, it opens up dialogue and many different pathways of conversation to continue to encourage better protections of the environment. We'll continue to engage in that aspect.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

I am still surprised. You say that an agreement is the beginning of a discussion. However, knowing all that this entails and all the ecocidal activities currently being carried out in Indonesia, I am surprised that Canada did not raise the issue from the outset by saying that it would impose conditions, even if it meant saying that there would be no agreement without demanding, binding and extremely strict standards.