Evidence of meeting #21 for International Trade in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was indonesia.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Jason Groleau Conservative Beauce, QC
Thank you, Minister.
I have one last quick question. It will only take 10 seconds.
Conservative
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
I'm sorry, Minister. I have to go to Mr. Naqvi, because there are five minutes left, and they're his.
Liberal
Yasir Naqvi Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON
Thank you, Chair. I appreciate it very much.
Thank you, Minister, for being here and talking about this really important agreement.
I think it was Mr. Chambers who started the line of questioning talking about the impact on GDP if this agreement is passed. I appreciate your response, for a variety of reasons. One, I think we've seen over time, as you stated, that once these agreements are put in place, they tend to have a far greater impact on GDP and economic growth than what's forecasted. Also, the incremental impact of creating those open markets and giving options to our businesses is extremely important as well.
I think Indonesia is also important, for another reason, which is our ongoing negotiation with ASEAN countries. I think this is the fourth- or fifth-largest trading bloc in the world. Can you please speak to our opportunities to help finalize that particular agreement through Indonesia? What does ASEAN mean to Canada, and why are those particular trade negotiations important? As well, how does this agreement help us accomplish that particular goal?
Liberal
Maninder Sidhu Liberal Brampton East, ON
Absolutely. Madam Chair, I want to thank my parliamentary secretary for his important work on the trade file. He's on the ground making sure we're talking to businesses and ambassadors from all countries around the world.
I come back to the question on ASEAN. When I look at that region, it's a huge trading bloc, a huge opportunity for Canada. When I look at their top economies—Vietnam, Indonesia, Philippines, and of course Thailand—there are ways we're making sure we're continuing to access that market, whether it's through this FTA here with Indonesia, whether it's through our CPTPP trading bloc with Vietnam, or whether it's our direct conversations with the Philippines and Thailand in terms of getting a bilateral free trade agreement with them. We're making sure we're approaching this region.
Why is the region important? If you look at their fast-growing middle class, you see the spending capacity they have. They want to consume lots of Canadian products, which are known around the world to be of high quality, with high standards, so people pay a premium for that. For our workers, for our producers, that means opportunities. It means jobs.
Madam Chair, I know we only have a few minutes left. We're hearing from members across the table. I think it's important that we read into the record what stakeholders have said about this agreement and what it means to them, because they are the ones who represent the farmers, the workers, the manufacturers, the exporters on the ground.
The Wheat Growers Association, which represents hundreds of farmers in Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Alberta—over 370,000 jobs—has quite frankly said that this agreement “is a win for Western Canadian farmers” and that “Indonesia's growing demand for high-quality grains opens the door for more Canadian exports, supports jobs in rural communities, and strengthens Canada’s position as a reliable global supplier.” That's from the Wheat Growers Association.
That's not all. Look at the Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance. They have said, “The agreement’s commitments on agri-food, food security, and trade facilitation reflect the strong complementarities between Canada and Indonesia, and we look forward to working with government and industry partners to ensure these provisions translate into real opportunities”. They also say, “Together, these efforts will help Canadian agri-food exporters diversify markets, strengthen supply chain resilience, and contribute to inclusive, sustainable growth.”
When I talk about the agri-food sector, it's about the farmers, but it's also.... In my neck of the woods, in Brampton, we have 9,000 people who work in that industry. There's huge potential opportunity in agriculture, agri-food, seafood, fisheries, but beyond that, in aerospace, mining and infrastructure. I talked about much of that today.
You talked about some of the forecasting. It is based on today's trade numbers between the two countries, but it doesn't forecast the growth of those countries. How fast does the middle class grow there, their spending capacity? When I look at it historically, the forecasting is fine for today, but it has been underwhelming. If you look at what happens within six years, you see that trade usually doubles when we sign a trade agreement with any country. That's the average right now. I think we need to look at that. The economic forecasting is fine, but they're not always right. I know they use the current situation in terms of the conditions and the facts they have for today, but it's hard to account for growth in another country and what that government does in terms of spending power for its citizens.
I am very confident that this will open opportunities. We heard from industry stakeholders. We're hearing it continually. I'm getting emails and talking to businesses. You're talking to businesses. The more FTAs we have, the more opportunities we have for workers.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you very much.
I'll give the last minute to Mr. Savard-Tremblay, if he wants it. It's just one minute, though.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
Madam Chair, you indicated that I had no more speaking time, so I did not prepare to speak again.
Minister, let’s pick up where we left off, since you didn’t have time to respond fully when I spoke to you about the environmentally binding provisions.
Liberal
Maninder Sidhu Liberal Brampton East, ON
As I think I read into the record, there are mechanisms within this trade agreement that allow you to have that conversation about the constraints and the encouragement around environment and labour.
We can get you more details. I'm happy to do that. I know that we have only 30 seconds left, but again, I'm always happy to talk trade. I'm happy to come back. I'm very passionate about this subject. I know that you are as well. I'm happy to have a conversation with you.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
You may provide your response in writing to the committee.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you very much.
Minister, we very much appreciate your coming in. We'll just have to keep on producing trade agreements so that at least once a month we have you coming back to see us.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Absolutely. That's another one.
We'd be very happy to see you. We would clear the decks, all of us, to see that happen.
Thank you to your officials. We very much appreciate it.
We will suspend for a few minutes. Then we will get to the rest of our work.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
I am calling the meeting back to order.
Pursuant to the order of reference of Thursday, December 11, 2025, the committee is resuming its study of Bill C-13.
This is a very strong committee that can switch from one hour on one bill to the second hour on another bill.
We have with us, from the Department of Finance, Sven Linkruus, director of financial services, trade relations, financial institutions division; Jeffrey Smith, senior economist, financial institutions division; and Brad Norwood, senior economist, tariff and trade policy, international trade policy division.
From the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development, we have Mary-Catherine Speirs, director general, trade negotiations bureau; Julien Faubert-Leger, acting deputy director, investment and government procurement division; and Rodney Neufeld, senior counsel, investment and services law.
Thank you, all, for being with us today to help us through this.
I will remind committee members that officials are present to answer questions that may arise during the clause-by-clause consideration.
I need to provide members of the committee with a few comments on how committees proceed with the clause-by-clause consideration of a bill.
As the name indicates, this is an examination of all the clauses in the order in which they appear in the bill. I will call each clause successively, and each clause is subject to debate and a vote. If there are amendments to the clause in question, I will recognize the member proposing the amendment, who may also explain it. The amendment will then be open for debate. When no further members wish to intervene, the amendment will be voted on.
Amendments will be considered in the order in which they appear in the package that each member received from the clerk. If there are amendments that are consequential to each other, they will be voted on together.
In addition to having to be properly drafted in a legal sense, amendments must be procedurally admissible. I may be called upon to rule amendments inadmissible if they go against the principle of the bill or beyond the scope of the bill, both of which were adopted by the House when it agreed to the bill at second reading, or if they offend the financial prerogative of the Crown.
If you wish to eliminate a clause of the bill altogether, the proper course of action is to vote against that clause when the time comes, not to propose an amendment to delete it.
Since this is the first exercise for many new members, I will go slowly, to allow all members to follow the proceedings properly.
If, during the process, the committee decides not to vote on a clause, that clause can be put aside by the committee so we can revisit it later in the process.
Amendments have been given a number in the top right-hand corner to indicate which party submitted them. There is no need for a seconder to move an amendment. Once it is moved, you will need unanimous consent to withdraw it.
During debate on an amendment, members are permitted to move subamendments. Only one subamendment may be considered at a time, and that subamendment cannot be amended.
Is everybody okay with the procedures and ready to move forward? Okay.
We have our legal advisers, who have been helpful with all of this as well, so we have a room full of very knowledgeable people. If you have any questions or concerns, don't hesitate to ask them.
We will start with clause-by-clause consideration.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
Before addressing section 1, I would like to ask a question about the preamble. It reads: “His Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate and House of Commons of Canada, enacts….”
May I ask what the legal significance of this preamble is?
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
Anyone who can answer my question is welcome to do so.
The Clerk of the Committee Alexie Labelle
This is not a preamble per se. It is merely a clarification of the authority under which the law would be enacted, in this case, the Crown.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
It seems to me that we do not see this in all bills.
The Clerk
Usually, yes, because it is the same authority that allows the Parliament of Canada to enact laws. Some bills have a preamble. This one does not, but usually there is always an enactment formula.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
How is it that we are talking about the consent of the Senate and the House of Commons before there has even been a vote?
The Clerk
I am not really in a position to answer that, as I am not a lawyer. However, that is the typical formula that authorizes the Parliament of Canada to enact legislation.
