International Trade Committee on April 14th, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I'm sorry; we've run out of time. Thank you very much.

Mr. Savard-Tremblay, go ahead, please, for six minutes.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here.

I'll have at least one question for each of you.

Senator Gerba, it's good to see you. By the way, thank you for your past co-operation on the issue of supply management. We worked hard on that bill, which is now a reality.

You mentioned the culture of accountability among Canadian mining companies.

There have been several scandals and investigations. Many allegations have been substantiated, particularly in Africa. Scandals involving Canadian mining companies have occurred in Latin America, but there have also been some in Africa.

We also know there's an issue regarding who can register as a mining company in Canada. A mining company need only have little more than a post office box to claim to be Canadian, even if the profit centre, the workforce and the headquarters, for example, aren't actually located there.

Ultimately, this creates a flag-of-convenience culture, where mining companies have a vested interest—given that the vast majority of mining companies worldwide are registered as Canadian—to benefit from tax and speculative advantages associated with the Toronto Stock Exchange.

Add to this the fact that, as we speak, the position of ombud remains vacant, and it has been for quite some time. In any case, even when the position isn't vacant, the ombud lacks the authority to summon witnesses or demand the production of documents.

Before considering further business opportunities for these mining companies in a region still largely untapped in terms of trade relations—namely, Africa—even if it is absolutely necessary, should we not resolve this issue, that is, fill the ombud position as quickly as possible and grant the ombud real authority?

[Amina Gerba]

I'll start by saying that, yes, it's important to staff this position.

Let me come back to the image of Canadian mining companies in Africa. As you know, I've visited some 40 countries in Africa, most of which had mining operations. Take the case of Burkina Faso, which is no longer part of the Economic Community of West African States. When I look at the Canadian mining companies—which I won't name—and at what those companies have done in Africa, I think we can be proud.

Of course, there's still a lot that needs to be done. Of course, regulation needs to be made even more stringent. Of course, before entering into a trade agreement, we need to make sure our companies remain accountable. I fully agree with you on that.

That said, what I want to emphasize here is that Africans are already familiar with mining companies, whether they are registered or exist only as a post office box. I believe we have legitimate mining companies that create many jobs, contribute their expertise and act responsibly, as I myself have experienced. They are not all the same. There is competition that isn't always Canadian. This creates a certain ambiguity, where it's sometimes unclear whether a mining company is Canadian or not. For my part, I've experienced it first-hand, and I've seen how certain mining companies operate in Africa.

Finally, I would say that African governments themselves are in the process of re‑examining their corporate social responsibility policies. As co‑chair of the Canada–Africa Parliamentary Association, I recently learned that Senegal is in the process of revising its legislation to make companies doing business in the country much more accountable. There is a resurgence of nationalism in Africa, and Canada can support that.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Thank you.

I want to clarify, of course, that I wasn't referring to all Canadian mining companies. As with anything else, it's the names of the companies that act improperly that tend to stick. When we find that the regulatory framework is too lax, it allows certain mining companies to behave badly, which ultimately harms the reputation of the entire sector.

Mr. Tétreault, there was an inaccuracy in your testimony. You began by saying you were nervous about being here. That wasn't the impression we had. You didn't seem particularly uncomfortable at all. Thank you for being with us.

Earlier, you asked whether we would go into the jungle alone. What would worry me most in the jungle—aside from getting lost—would be being eaten.

You also mentioned Chinese colonialism in this context. Given that form of colonialism, is there a risk in sending companies from here over there?

[Sylvain Tétreault]

The business model I advocate is one based on sharing expertise. Establishing a presence in Africa means entering into competition with China.

If we want to position ourselves and claim our share of the market, we must not do so using the same approach as those colonial powers. Instead, let's sell our expertise and support Africans in the spirit of “by and for” Africans. That kind of partnership will last for decades.

It's similar to setting up operations in Europe. When you establish yourself in other countries, there are rules and laws to follow. The risks are inherently too high. Let the colonial powers keep their role. Instead, let's position ourselves where we are strongest. In certain areas, we have greater expertise than the Chinese, the Russians and even the Americans. We've talked about mining. It's remarkable how much Americans would like to be partnered with Canadian mining companies. You see, that's a completely different angle of approach. Let's not operate in the same way as the superpowers.

I don't know if that answers your question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. McKenzie, you have five minutes, please.

[David McKenzie, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Senator, if I might, I'd like to ask you about the overarching structure and trade agreements. Often, our trade is realized company to company and business to business, but under a framework that our trade agreements provide—an umbrella, if you will.

I wonder if you have an opinion as to where we stand with individual company or country trade agreements in Africa or anything that encompasses trading blocs. Where do we need to go with respect to these things?

[Amina Gerba]

If you'll allow me, I will answer in French.

Canada has trade agreements with every continent. However, we don't have any trade agreements with African countries. That's one point.

Where should we begin? As I've said before, the Government of Canada must start by accepting the fact that Africa is a market. I repeat: It must accept the fact that Africa is a market. In addition, it must organize Team Canada trade missions to Africa, which would allow us to better understand how to approach the African context.

Here, we tend to generalize Africa. Africa is made up of 54 countries. Today, we're talking about North Africa and West Africa, which are much more francophone, even though Nigeria is the economic engine of the continent. If we approach the Nigerian market, that gives us immediate access to a market of 400 million potential consumers across West Africa. That's a fact. In Nigeria, you find every sector, including digital technologies, housing, mining and agri‑food. Nigeria can serve as a starting point in all the sectors where Canada is active.

On the francophone side, I mentioned Côte d'Ivoire, which gives us access to all francophone markets. It can serve as a hub for us. We're talking about all francophone markets in West Africa, in other words, just a few hours from Dakar, Benin and elsewhere. We can establish ourselves in these countries and gain an overall view and a foothold in African markets.

[David McKenzie, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

Senator, I believe that Canada is the fortunate home of many who have their roots in Africa. We have an African diaspora.

You talked a bit about the trade commissioner service and the promotion of trade. I'm wondering what efforts we might make domestically to promote, assist and support Africans or individuals of African heritage who make their home in Canada to do business in Africa. Obviously, they are individuals who would know countries in Africa well.

Can you talk about what the trade commissioner service can do domestically here in Canada to promote trade with Africa?

[Amina Gerba]

This question does indeed give me the opportunity to highlight the role of the African diaspora, which naturally—and I want to stress this term—represents the economic bridge we're looking for.

How can we activate the African diaspora? We need to be able to put in place a mechanism for dialogue and coordination with members of the diaspora. They are everywhere.

I've met many of them recently—a great many. As the Senate report points out, we need to establish a mechanism that allows us to engage with this diaspora, which is diverse, present in all sectors and brings a wide range of expertise. However, it's missing something fundamental: information and resources. The diaspora isn't even aware that FinDev Canada is active in Africa, and FinDev Canada isn't aware that the diaspora can be a tool for entering the continent and reducing risk in Africa.

From what I've heard, members of the diaspora aren't even aware that Export Development Canada and the Trade Commissioner Service can support them. We need this mechanism for dialogue and listening. I'm talking about a permanent council on relations relating to Africa in Canada, of which the diaspora would be an active member. Let me say that again: The diaspora would be an active member.

When it comes to the diaspora, there are two things: The diaspora needs funding, and the diaspora does not lack initiatives—there are plenty of them. I see them every day. Since Canada's Africa Strategy was released, I've seen just how active the diaspora is. It wants to get involved. We therefore need an investment fund specifically dedicated to the diaspora, which is a—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I'm so sorry to interrupt. I know you're trying to get all your points across, but I'm trying to give members the opportunity to ask the questions.

Mr. Fonseca, go ahead, please.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to thank you, our wonderful, tremendous witnesses, Senator Gerba and Monsieur Tétreault, because of the passion, the experience and the knowledge you bring.

Senator Gerba, you've travelled to 40 countries throughout Africa.

Monsieur Tétreault, I wish we could harness all of the experience you bring.

You are true champions for trade between Canada and Africa. That's what we need to see with the goals we've set and with what we want to achieve.

I want to ask you both to take us through an experience where you've helped a firm, an organization or a company, either an SME or a larger company, to navigate and increase their trade with Africa. Could you take us through a bit of a case study?

We could start with you, Senator Gerba.

[Amina Gerba]

I will talk about myself and my companies. I'm not involved in those companies anymore.

I've been an entrepreneur since 1995. I established some companies that were primarily focused on Africa. It's not enough to say that Africa has resources; we must make the most of them.

I chose an important sector, among others, because I wear many hats. The company I'm going to talk about is a cosmetics business. I travelled to Burkina Faso in 1996. I met women who produced shea butter. These women needed to promote their product—their raw material—in North America.

I returned with 500 grams of shea butter. I started knocking on the doors of agri-food and cosmetics manufacturers, but nobody was familiar with this ingredient. I decided to open my own shea butter processing plant in Laval.

I also established a social fund for women, and this plant has since made it possible to support more than 2,000 women in Burkina Faso. We have the advantage of taking social responsibility seriously in Canada. This social fund enabled us to set up a health mutual, which provided these women with free medication and health care. It's an experience that I hope every one of our businesses will bring to Africa.

Go and see for yourself, because Africa can't be fully understood through words alone. As Mr. Tétreault says, Africa is something you have to experience, and anything is possible there.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Congratulations.

Monsieur Tétreault.

[Sylvain Tétreault]

I told you about AmeriCan Structures, a company in Thetford Mines that specializes in prefabricated homes. In the coming weeks, the entire housing component and everything related to it will be rolled out. A residential neighbourhood isn't just dwellings; it also has sewers and electricity.

There's also a huge need in terms of waste and recycling in Africa. So I'm working with a company that has expertise in sorting recycling, in waste management. I'm showing them the advantage of training good fishers, because it doesn't happen automatically. We're used to selling our products and services in business. Selling expertise is a bit abstract. But they've understood the principle that they could do it from one country to another.

There are countless cases like this. I'm just waiting for our irritants to be removed. But don't worry, members. The senator and I will pave the way for you. Isn't that right, Senator?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We'll move on to Monsieur Savard-Tremblay for a tight two and a half minutes.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to pick up where we left off when you were speaking about sharing skills and expertise, Mr. Tétreault. Is that sharing done directly with the public institutions there, or is it done with the companies, the powers you were talking about, which will be there?

[Sylvain Tétreault]

That's a good question. The people buying the expertise are business people, rightly supported by the government. Let's take the example of prefabricated wooden homes. The forests are owned by the government. Sawmills and prefabrication plants are private companies. However, by necessity, you can't do business in Africa without state intervention. However, the government must be given a much more limited role. You have to focus on the business people. The funding is there. It's all there. It's just a matter of convincing Africans to come here.

As an aside, the right symbolic gesture we could make to show Africa that Canada is serious would be to plan a Canada-Africa economic summit in the next few weeks and to bring stakeholders here from a dozen countries, people from the political realm. It would be a strong symbol that would help us show that the United States is one thing, but there's so much more than the United States: There's also Africa.

Senator, you and I could organize that together.

[Amina Gerba]

I'll take this opportunity to wrap up on the idea of a summit like this. All of our partners in Japan, France, China and Italy are already holding summits. Canada never thought of that. It would be a great idea to put in place.

[Sylvain Tétreault]

With the contacts we have, we'd get it done in a few weeks. This is serious. We have to stop talking, we have to move on this, because we're going to miss the boat if we waste another year or two going around in circles. We have a huge opportunity.

Before the meeting, I sent a photo of myself to my African network. They all wished me well. They want to do business with Canadians. There are those who don't want to work with us; we won't say which ones, but there are those who want to work with us. Why not invite them and show them all the great expertise we have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

It's a wonderful idea. We should immediately start working on that. Thank you so much.

Mr. Lavoie, go ahead, please, for five minutes. He's our last person.

[Steeve Lavoie, Liberal, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Good afternoon.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being with us. It's fascinating. I echo my colleagues in telling you that your enthusiasm is infectious.

I'm going to play another role today. In my previous life, I was a banker for 20 years. I had both individuals and businesses as clients. The role we played with businesses was to meet with their representatives who were looking for financing, to understand the market these businesses were operating in, to get to know their executives, to see if there were any barriers that might hinder their entry into the market and to understand how they did business. After that, we had to convince our credit sector. There was a Chinese wall between the two, because we really had to study business development.

I'm going to kind of play devil's advocate here. When the file got to the credit people, they looked for all the blind spots, because the goal of a bank that lends money is to ensure the sustainability of a business. The business has to be sustainable. That's the goal. The goal isn't to put them in a tight spot. So the credit people were looking for blind spots.

Witnesses, we're going to play the game with you today. What are the blind spots? Why is Canada not at the table like some countries are today? Tell me about the blind spots that need to be looked at, what's holding things up, because if things are being held up, there's a reason for that. I want to know what those blind spots are.

Do you understand what I'm getting at? You told me about everything that works well, everything that could work, and I believe you. However, we have to be realistic. There are things going on in this world that we have to be careful about. What are our blind spots with Africa?

When you know the blind spots, you're able to react well. That's the purpose of my question.

Maybe I'll start with you, Senator Gerba, and then I'll go to you, Mr. Tétreault.

[Sylvain Tétreault]

We can reassure the banker.

[Steeve Lavoie, Liberal, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Reassuring the banker, that's it, you got it.

[Amina Gerba]

That's a very good question. The first blind spot is risk analysis.

At Export Development Canada, I found that the risk in the African market was exaggerated. I've experienced it. I told you about my products. I've sold in most of the francophone countries in Africa. However, when I went to get my insurance, I saw differences between—