Evidence of meeting #34 for International Trade in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Greer  Senior Vice-President, Public Affairs and National Policy, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters
Senneville  President, Confédération des syndicats nationaux
Manucha  Research Fellow, C.D. Howe Institute

The Chair (Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)) Liberal Judy Sgro

I'm calling the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 34 of the Standing Committee on International Trade.

We have with us today as new members Sima Acan and Ali Ehsassi.

Welcome to the international trade committee. It is one of the more interesting committees on the Hill, and we have some great members on all sides with us.

Today, we're meeting for only an hour, as the clerk was unable to schedule witnesses for the second hour.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, February 12, 2026, the committee is resuming its study of free trade within Canada.

We have with us today, from Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters, Ryan Greer, senior vice-president, public affairs and national policy. By video conference, from the Confédération des syndicats nationaux, we have Caroline Senneville, president, and Jean Dalcé, union adviser. From the C.D. Howe Institute, we have Ryan Manucha, research fellow.

Welcome to you all.

Mr. Greer, I invite you to make opening remarks for up to five minutes, please.

Ryan Greer Senior Vice-President, Public Affairs and National Policy, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters

Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the committee. On behalf of Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters, I appreciate the opportunity to participate in this study.

CME has been advocating since 1871 for policies that help manufacturers grow, compete and contribute to our communities. Free trade within Canada is certainly one of those issues.

Eighteen months ago, interprovincial trade surged to the forefront of the domestic policy agenda. While it was sparked by U.S. tariff actions, perhaps, rather than because of a principled vision for a unified Canadian economy, it was nonetheless welcomed by manufacturers, which have long advocated for the removal of these barriers.

There are many dimensions to the issue. I'm just going to focus my brief remarks on the most important factor, in our view, for unlocking interprovincial trade: mutual recognition.

Harmonization, where every province adopts or tries to align their standards, certainly looks tidy on paper, but it is slow, costly and almost impossible at scale. We've seen this demonstrated by the Regulatory Reconciliation and Cooperation Table, a body established in 2017 specifically to harmonize regulations. It has done some good work but has completed only a handful over that time.

Mutual recognition is much simpler. If an economic activity—whether it's producing, selling or providing a service—is legal in one province or territory, it ought to be accepted as legal everywhere in Canada. The principle allows differences to exist, but it stops them from becoming barriers. It respects provincial jurisdiction, and it's the only approach that can be scaled across the entire economy and made durable against political erosion.

We've seen some encouraging progress. The Canadian Mutual Recognition Agreement on the Sale of Goods, some federal enabling legislation and some provincial legislation to align rules are all steps in the right direction. It would be fair to say that Canada has certainly done more in the past 18 months to dismantle internal trade barriers than we've seen in substantive action over the previous few decades. This is genuinely remarkable and deserves acknowledgement.

We are now at a precarious moment in the reform cycle when governments may believe that they have done enough, when there is the potential for some tariff-driven urgency to fade—depending on how our negotiations with our neighbours to the south go—and when the structural incompleteness of what has been built gets buried under press releases. I'll share a few brief observations on the current state of mutual recognition.

First, we have some concerns that we are drifting towards a permanent patchwork rather than a clean, universal mutual recognition architecture. This is seen, for example, in how provincial approaches vary and how they recognize an inbound worker's qualifications.

The CMRA also covers goods sales but not the rules for how those goods are produced. A Canadian manufacturer expanding production capacity into a second province gets mutual recognition for the product under the CMRA, but its plant still faces entirely separate permitting processes, a different occupational health and safety regime, differing energy and emissions requirements, and differing building standards. The agreement as it exists, or as it is starting to exist, recognizes what crosses the border, but it says nothing about what it costs to build and operate on either side of it.

Similarly, the commitment to negotiate an expansion of the CMRA to include services by the end of 2026 is a welcome development. However, whether it will result in a genuine mutual recognition instrument or in more of a CFTA-style framework agreement with carve-outs and limited enforcement is still an open question.

As this committee has discussed, labour mobility provisions are still leaving gaps for trades and professions that require province-specific exams or provincial practical assessments. CME is worried that these gaps will keep large parts of our economy fenced off from the benefits of internal trade reform.

We have four recommendations on what the government could do to build on the momentum behind mutual recognition.

The first is to build and publish some sort of national mutual recognition scorecard and dashboard to help Canadians and businesses track transparently what each jurisdiction has implemented, what's outstanding and where carve-outs persist. We could potentially integrate some live business feedback with that.

We think that the mutual recognition process specifically should be a standing agenda item at first ministers' meetings to help keep leaders focused and accountable. That could certainly include reviewing the scorecard results in public.

We think it's time to explore a process to better align new regulations at birth and prevent divergence before it starts. There is no substantive mechanism in place to require provincial regulators to consult across provincial lines as part of the standard regulatory development process. This is when the design of the regulation is at its most malleable. We think that ought to be done.

Lastly, we would encourage the federal government to use its fiscal levers, both carrots and sticks, to help drive provincial alignment during this period. For example, labour market development agreement funding could be conditioned on provinces demonstrating adherence to defined credential and recognition timelines.

In conclusion, the risk of where we're at today is not necessarily failure. The risk is that Canada succeeds just enough to stop. A patchwork of mutual recognition is not mutual recognition. Every day that we settle for something less is a day Canadian manufacturers compete at a disadvantage, Canadians pay more and Canada builds less than it should. The momentum exists. We hope this committee study continues to help ensure that our governments use it.

Thanks. I look forward to your questions.

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Mr. Greer.

Ms. Senneville and Mr. Dalcé, you have the floor for up to five minutes, please.

Caroline Senneville President, Confédération des syndicats nationaux

Good morning.

Thank you for having us.

You will appreciate that we speak on behalf of a union that has 330,000 members in Canada. Our point of view may therefore be a bit different from that of the manufacturers.

We fully understand that we're talking about internal trade and what barriers might exist within the country. The international context requires us to do so. So we're not against the principle. We're also not convinced that, even if we eliminate all the barriers, our economy will rise to the next level.

When we ask entrepreneurs why they don't do business with other provinces in Canada, the main reason cited is distance. In the current context, we have to rethink our economy, but rethinking our geography is more difficult.

In addition, I would say that our economy has been very much based on foreign trade, not only with the United States, but also with Europe and the Asia-Pacific region. In fact, an article published by a major Montreal daily this morning says that Mr. Carney wants to continue to pursue free trade with other countries. We really need to recognize that that is how our economy is structured, particularly because the domestic market is very weak.

It must also be said that, in our opinion, one of the key challenges in our economy relates to productivity, whether in international trade or domestic trade. We are one of the few countries in the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, or OECD, whose productivity is not only low, but has actually decreased. We think government action could really help increase productivity. This is a national undertaking that unions would enthusiastically participate in.

That said, in order to produce, you have to invest. We need to invest in equipment, personnel and the workforce, particularly in this era of technological change. Businesses will have to rise to those challenges, and we would like to help them do that.

Now let's return to the barriers between the provinces.

First, there are fewer barriers between the provinces than there are in all our international agreements. There is a myth in that regard. As I said at the outset, we can always look at regulations, which have to be adjusted to meet the expressed needs. So it is not a question of too many or not enough, but rather whether existing regulations are serving their intended purpose. If so, we should keep them. If not, how can they be changed?

We are particularly concerned about mutual recognition, which could be a downward spiral, particularly when it comes to occupational health and safety. We're a union. We work very hard to ensure that health and safety standards are met in Quebec. As of today, April 28, there have been 257 workplace deaths in Quebec in the past year. We don't think this is an area where regulations should be cut. In fact, the same thing goes for the environment.

We also have to be careful because when we open up internal trade or break down internal trade barriers, that creates barriers for all the countries with which we have treaties. There are many such countries, as I said at the outset.

As to the downward spiral within Canada and in our international trade, we must not just ask ourselves questions, we must ask ourselves the right questions.

Obviously, since I'm from Quebec, I could not finish without saying that recognition of French is very important to us. In terms of labour mobility and business mobility, we must absolutely be able to work in French. That was a major battle for the Confédération des syndicats nationaux, or CSN, when it was founded in 1921. We have to be able to work in French in Quebec and have safety rules in French. Of course, it's a matter of recognizing the language rights and the occupational health of the members we represent, primarily in Quebec.

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much.

We'll go on to another five minutes, with Mr. Manucha, please.

Ryan Manucha Research Fellow, C.D. Howe Institute

Thank you so much.

On a sunny October day in 2012, retiree Gerard Comeau travelled the two hours from his house in New Brunswick to Quebec. Prices were cheaper, he's a rational economic actor and he was on his quarterly beer run. Mr. Comeau had no idea that this seemingly innocuous trip would land him in front of the Supreme Court and would catalyze a national conversation about the state of domestic trade. On re-entering New Brunswick with his haul, the RCMP detained and fined him and confiscated all his booze for the distinctly Canadian offence of having too much alcohol in his trunk when coming back from another province.

Internal trade barriers are a feature of our constitutional set-up; they're not a bug. They are the natural by-product of a system that assigns substantial authority to our provinces. Mr. Comeau's run-in with the law symbolizes our nation's long-standing struggle to achieve economic unity within a federal structure. Internal trade barriers are more than just liquor limits, and we do not have to accept them as fate.

Let's use another example: standards. At the dawn of Confederation, the distance between the two rails of a railway track in the Maritimes was different from that in Upper and Lower Canada. It was four feet, eight inches for one, and five feet, six inches for another, which meant that at intercolonial frontiers, operators had to move goods and people from one railcar to another simply because of a difference in standards. That is an internal trade barrier, and it added money, time and extreme inefficiency.

Internal trade barriers lead to deeply embedded domestic regulatory patchworks—like the railway track width differential—which ultimately harm Canadian productivity and economic competitiveness. The year 2025 saw massive strides on internal trade reform—an incredible intergovernmental collaboration—but the job is far from done. It is relatively easy to table legislation and to sign MOUs. The challenge is in implementation, and the hard work really is just beginning.

The remaining divergences are wide-ranging. To name just a few, we're talking about national safety code implementation for trucking carriers, securities regulations, electrical codes, occupational health and safety rules, building codes and fall safety training programs.

Again, that's just tip of the iceberg. I co-authored a piece with Professor Trevor Tombe, out of the University of Calgary, and we found that a patchwork in rules and regulations facing trucking added 8.3% to the cost of freight rates—that's a $1.6-billion drag on the Canadian economy—with divergences on everything from driver qualifications for long combination vehicles to mutual recognition of farm licence plates and the definition of “sunrise” and “sunset” among provinces.

Now here are some credible, politically saleable and implementable federal actions.

First, Parliament should update the Statutory Instruments Act to require federal regulators to rely on consensus-based standards wherever possible—I've written about this with Senator Colin Deacon—as standards advance faster than any one government's regulators can keep up to. The EU has embraced this with great success. Think about the divergences in the EU.

Second, the House should pass Senate bill Bill S-239, which is being introduced by Senator Marty Klyne and which strengthens and makes more clear the Competition Bureau's ability to study and report on internal trade. Doing so would institutionalize internal trade reform, helping it endure beyond the present moment. Australia did something very similar with great success.

Third—it sounds like the two Ryans here are of like mind—the federal government should condition labour market development agreement funding on whether provinces and territories publicly demonstrate compliance with the 30-day standard for credential recognition. Canada's governments all have agreed to a 30-day standard to recognize inbound workers. Disclosure is the only the way to audit compliance, and money is going to help.

I'll end with this. I watched the committee testimony from Minister LeBlanc when he was here. There was a lot of talk about the relationship with the U.S. Two-way goods and services trade with the U.S. is $1.2 trillion. Internal trade is $500 billion. CUSMA is receiving a ton of time, attention and resources, and internal trade—and I thank the committee for its work on it—should continue to be treated with seriousness as well.

Thank you so much.

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thanks very much to all of you.

We go now to our members.

Mr. McKenzie, you have six minutes, please.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

David McKenzie Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I have a very straightforward question for each of the two witnesses present.

Mr. Greer, do we have free trade within Canada today?

11:15 a.m.

Senior Vice-President, Public Affairs and National Policy, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters

Ryan Greer

No. I would say there has been quite a bit of progress, as I said in my remarks, and we're encouraged by that, but there is lots of work remaining to...I don't want to say “finish the job”, because I think this will be a ongoing project as long as any of us here is around these circles.

There has been substantive progress. There's no free trade within Canada at this moment.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

David McKenzie Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

Mr. Manucha, I have the same question for you: Do we have free trade in Canada today?

11:20 a.m.

Research Fellow, C.D. Howe Institute

Ryan Manucha

Complete, unfettered free trade is aspirational. It will never be achieved. What we're seeking to unlock is competitiveness and productivity. We're trying to diminish trade barriers where we can. We will never get to zero. I don't think we would love a Canada where there are zero trade barriers.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

David McKenzie Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

I want to ask a couple of questions, Mr. Manucha, in relation to your answer. First, is there more that the federal government can do? It has constitutional powers. The declaration by our Prime Minister last year that Canada would have free trade was ambitious—ill-advised might be another description of that—given that a great deal of the existing trade barriers are indeed provincial areas of authority. There is subsection 92(10) of the Constitution. What do you think the federal government can actually do to push free trade internally in Canada?

11:20 a.m.

Research Fellow, C.D. Howe Institute

Ryan Manucha

There are internal trade barriers from commission and omission. There are still a lot of regulations on the books when it comes to environmental protection, transport or, if we get to the territories, supply management that are technically internal trade barriers, but there is also the omission. A central government has a responsibility to stand up and be the central coordinating force among the provinces and territories. This is where the federal government needs to be strong. The championship needs to be strong from the centre.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

David McKenzie Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

It strikes me that barriers in trade are fundamentally protectionist in nature. Over a great number of decades, the existing framework that is in place today has been built up. Generally speaking, our provinces have put rules in place to protect their own domestic industry within a province. Is it in fact true that there are winners and losers as we try to harmonize or at least get mutual recognition for trade within Canada?

11:20 a.m.

Research Fellow, C.D. Howe Institute

Ryan Manucha

Canada's future productivity will be the loser if we don't try to do something about internal trade. It connects. No one cares about the definition of high-visibility safety apparel or how many band-aids are in a first aid kit. What we care about is GDP growth, the well-being of Canadians and our ability to prosper for another 100 years. That's why internal trade is important.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

David McKenzie Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

Mr. Greer, do you see it the same way? Your membership would say that there's a plethora of rules and regulations in Canada now, put in place by the provinces, that don't contribute to an improvement in product safety or workplace conditions and don't make major positive contributions to our country, but that do get in the way of frictionless trade between provinces.

11:20 a.m.

Senior Vice-President, Public Affairs and National Policy, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters

Ryan Greer

It's important to think about this question in the way that Canada thinks about international trade. Manufacturing is an entirely trade-exposed sector, as we've experienced in some very detrimental ways in the last 18 months. Plenty of people said, as Canada looked to expand its trading relationship with the United States or abroad, that there would be winners and losers. In terms of prosperity, Canada, Canadians and all of us in our communities have benefited from this. The same is true of taking a similar approach to internal trade within Canada.

Manufacturers have adapted to a system that has all these small distinctions and differences, but there's a cost to doing that. They would welcome a simpler, easier way to move their products, build facilities and move people anywhere in the country.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

David McKenzie Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

There may be costs in adapting to a better harmonized internal trading relationship, but those costs would be outweighed by the benefits.

11:20 a.m.

Senior Vice-President, Public Affairs and National Policy, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters

Ryan Greer

Hugely, yes.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

David McKenzie Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

In particular, where our Canadian industry is already capable of competing internationally, the fact that it's effectively prohibited from competing internally is completely illogical. Is that correct?

11:20 a.m.

Senior Vice-President, Public Affairs and National Policy, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters

Ryan Greer

Well, it not only hinders us. It would be fair to describe Canada as a relatively high-cost jurisdiction in which to do business. Internal trade barriers are one of the reasons. Making it easier and more affordable to do business within Canada will also make us more competitive in new markets.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

David McKenzie Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

Let me come back to you on the federal government's leading role, Mr. Manucha. Where is the leadership role that we haven't seen from the federal government? Where could that go? Could you talk about what you think is its first priority?

11:20 a.m.

Research Fellow, C.D. Howe Institute

Ryan Manucha

We should make it explicit as part of the Competition Bureau's mandate that internal trade should be formally under their purview. They are the institution that will mechanize internal trade reform for years to come.

Internal trade is a very exciting topic now. We get to speak before you on this topic. It will abate, but if we have the machinery in place with a standing body like the bureau, which is tasked with and an expert at policing anti-competitive products, that would be fantastic for years to come. That's what I would focus on.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

David McKenzie Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

Those steps could be taken today, effectively. They're within the reach of the federal government.

11:25 a.m.

Research Fellow, C.D. Howe Institute

Ryan Manucha

That's correct.