International Trade Committee on Oct. 6th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I was going to allow—

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

You're very generous.

You know, chairs of committees that I've been on previously, who shall remain nameless, were a little more abrupt than this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Is that right?

Well, when we're receiving great information, regardless of who's asking the question, I think it's important to let that information get to the table. That's what we're doing.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You're very welcome.

Mr. Bellisle, I understand that you have to leave.

[Robert Bellisle]

Yes. I apologize, but as mentioned, the AAPA is happening, and I'm actually hosting. I mentioned to the committee that I unfortunately have to leave at five o'clock to get to it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you so very much for your information. Who knows? We may have you back in 2026, if not before.

[Robert Bellisle]

Thank you, and thank you to the committee for your great work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Ms. Tronnes, are you okay for a little bit more, so that we can get a few more questions in?

I have Mr. Fonseca next, and then I have Mr. Savard-Tremblay.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I have always known MP Chambers as somebody who is very diligent with his time, very strict in keeping to the letter of the law, or whatever the time is, but it's great to see that he's very relaxed here in asking all of his questions. They are great questions. We've been able to get some fantastic testimony from our witnesses, as Ms. Tronnes has provided.

Ms. Tronnes, you just spoke about your conversations with Mr. Lighthizer. Those are very positive. Those are good to hear. He is, as you say, the godfather of tariffs. Is that what you called him? Yes.

Thank you for setting up in the United States. I want to follow up on that.

Should Canada be using the private sector, the think-tank diplomacy, more aggressively in the U.S. to be able to influence American opinion leaders, in your opinion?

[Jamie Tronnes]

Yes, I agree 100%. It is very lonely where I am now. I see the same for Canadian analysts from the academic sector. There are very few of us in the U.S. in general, not just in D.C., but in the U.S., and that's a big problem for Canada.

I'll put it into perspective. I'm a staff of one. I'm in D.C. by myself for Canada. I have five Mexican counterpart institutes. That does not include the Latin American centres of study at almost every other major think tank in the U.S. There is no Canadian centre of study at any of the think tanks in the U.S. If we fall under anything, it might be something Arctic adjacent, but it's very hard to find that.

I also have a hard time finding Canadian lobbyists down there and not necessarily industry associations representing Canada. When I ask and when I'm asked by businesses which of the Canadian associations should be supported, I just say, “Yes.” Support all of them. We need more Canada in the U.S. We need more voices.

Canadians are not used to having to compete for attention in the United States, so we don't know how much it costs. It is expensive to have a voice, think tanks and academic programs, and for people to study and care about your country in the world's capital, where every single problem goes through it, but it's worth it when it comes to a moment like this.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

I have one final question.

What strategic move could most effectively ensure that Canada remains indispensable to the United States?

I know that's a big question.

[Jamie Tronnes]

Yes, that's a really big question.

Well, McDavid has just been signed, so we can't trade him back, not that we would.

I really think we need to cement our position with the United States. I know that this is a time when we're talking about diversifying our export market, and I don't think America cares if we do or we don't, as long as they can continue to get products from us. They're happy for us to also make money elsewhere. They don't take it personally, and neither should we.

I think it's important for us, however, to remain indispensable, be the power that they can rely on and to keep our promises when it comes to things like permitting reform, maintaining our military spending and all of the other things that we say we'll do.

We can only strengthen this alliance at this point. We've kind of hurt it a little bit, but it can only go up from here.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Savard-Tremblay, do you have any questions?

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

If I understand correctly, Ms. Tronnes is the only one left.

Is that right?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You're next on the list.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Then I'll just finish up on the previous subject.

Ms. Tronnes, let's say annual reviews were built into CUSMA, as has been suggested. I don't know how plausible that is, but it was suggested. It's possible.

Would that give Beijing more opportunities to exploit internal divisions?

You might not see the impacts on our side. The Americans might be more affected, or it might be felt on both sides of the border.

[Jamie Tronnes]

Any time you have an opportunity to make a hole in an alliance between two countries, that gives any nefarious actor an opportunity, so that would not be a good thing. Also, it would probably make a lot of work for me, and I don't like that.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

That's all for me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. McKenzie.

[David McKenzie, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

I'd like to ask one last question, Madam Chair.

I mentioned earlier that I'm from the riding of Calgary Signal Hill.

The energy exports from the Western Canada Sedimentary Basin, a great deal of which underlies Alberta, are significant, we send millions of barrels of crude oil to the United States.

Do you see in Washington and in the corridors of power of the U.S. an understanding that it is the case and an appreciation for the integration for the North American energy circumstances?

[Jamie Tronnes]

I had the honour of chatting with the deputy secretary of energy recently about this. They are very well aware of how dependent they are on Canada for natural gas—oil, yes, but also natural gas.

There is a promise that Secretary Wright made to double American natural gas exports in five years. To do that, they'll have to double Canadian imports in five years because the Permian Basin is not tapped out, but it's reached peak shale, and so it's going to get more expensive for them to get the energy out.

Quite frankly, the pipeline infrastructure that we have is almost at capacity already, and that's a big problem. The United States has 100 gigawatts of natural gas-fired power plants that will be coming online also within the next five years, and their pipeline capacity is almost full.

There's going to be a pipeline building frenzy whether they like it not, and some of that steel and aluminum may have to come from Canada. Certainly their horsepower engines to get the product to market will have to come from Canada. There's a lot of opportunity for Canadian companies and energy companies to prosper in the United States.

They are very well aware that the focus on AI dependence means a focus on Canadian dependence, whether they know it or not. It's absolutely the fact.

[David McKenzie, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

Indeed, in addition to the opportunity for Canadian expertise to be exported to the U.S., a company like Enbridge already has significant interests in the United States in terms of owning and constructing pipelines. Surely, at the same time, there must be a concurrent need for additional energy infrastructure in Canada that allows us to export further volumes in addition to what we already export.

[Jamie Tronnes]

That's 100% true.

This demand for natural gas isn't just going to come from the United States—let's be clear. China is also trying to get as much energy as possible, as is all of Asia. People are obsessed with trying to get these data centres powered, and natural gas is the quickest way to get a data centre online because it's the fastest way to build an electrical generation plant. If we don't start increasing our capacity to get our product to market, we're not going to meet the demand as it comes. It takes a long time to build a pipeline, but it doesn't take very long to build the actual plant itself.