Evidence of meeting #13 for Medical Assistance in Dying in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was alan.
A video is available from Parliament.
Senator, Saskatchewan, C
Was he determined, if that's the right word, to proceed?
As an Individual
Well, actually, my husband said, “Alan, I'm going to be retiring in the next year”—we live in Alberta—“and Trish and I are thinking of moving back to the Chilliwack area.” Alan said, “Gee, I wish I had known that.” He was talking about things.... He was mad at the government. He wasn't making sense. He was talking nonsensical things at that time.
The next morning we came. We actually sat in the room with him when they administered those lethal injections in his arm. We were with him. His own doctor couldn't even be in the room.
Senator, Saskatchewan, C
Was he aware, as that process...? If this was all being carried out legally, of course, the doctors and the assistant who is with him, whether it's a nurse or another doctor, must ask—
Senator, Saskatchewan, C
They must describe the process and ask.... Did he give that final consent?
Senator, Saskatchewan, C
Okay, thanks for clarifying that, because I did not understand that the first time through.
Ms. Romaire, if I can come back to you on a similar kind of issue of process, then, you applied and asked for MAID. In that first request, in which you were rejected and it was not accepted, what was your reason?
As an Individual
The reason I first requested MAID—both times actually—was for adhesive arachnoiditis. It was for the pain that I have in my spine. It was for physical suffering.
Senator, Saskatchewan, C
That's what you wrote on the forms, and the doctors or the assessors then said what to you at that point? I'm talking about the first round.
As an Individual
When you first request MAID, you do a record of request for MAID, and that's what I did in Alberta. It's sent to the care coordination service. They coordinate the two assessments [Technical difficulty—Editor] with you. The assessments that I had were hours and hours long. They sent two independent assessors, and they both came and spent hours with me. My sister was here with me for the assessment. He took almost three hours in my first assessment, just going through the history, everything I had tried and everything that had failed. We covered a lot of things. I had handed him a very well put-together case. I had my list of 15 specialists that I had had consultations with already, and I gave that to him. I provided all of those things, and it was still hours and hours long.
Senator, Saskatchewan, C
When did they tell you no? Was it that day, later, a week later, a month later? When did they say, “No, we don't think you're eligible.”
As an Individual
The first time I requested MAID, I had the two assessments, and they tell you at the end of your assessment. When I had the first two in 2019, they told me at the end of that assessment that because I did not have a reasonably foreseeable natural death, they had to tell me no. But actually the first assessor I had was the one who told me to fight for MAID.
Senator, Saskatchewan, C
Okay, so then what was the time between your first request, which was unsuccessful, and your second request for MAID, which was successful? It's sort of sitting on the books for you to trigger at some point. Is that how you see it?
Pierre Dalphond Senator, Quebec (De Lorimier), PSG
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I wish to thank the witnesses for appearing today. I know these are difficult stories to tell to the world. We hope that.... I'm kind of shocked to hear that you were refused some palliative care or the assistance that you need, Ms. Romaire.
My question is for Mr. and Mrs. Nichols.
Your story has been happening since 2019. I read on the Internet the story that was run by CTV about it. It's already been almost three years. In the story, they say that you have hired a lawyer to assist you. What's happening with this? According to the CTV report, your lawyer was to get access to the medical records, and I guess you are going to advise further on if you are going to sue somebody. Did you get access to the medical files and everything else?
As an Individual
When Alan was in the hospital, that's where he did his will. He didn't have a will when he entered the hospital. They brought in a notary who filled out his will, and Alan made him the executer of the will, so we had trouble getting his records. We eventually got some medical records because we put a lien against the will and everything like that, for a while. They forwarded us the medical records, and there's nothing there to show that Alan was being treated for anything. There were just really the MAID reports and applications, things like that.
We are contemplating action, some kind of criminal law against the hospital, a claim, maybe, against the hospital, but that's just in the process. They have deep pockets. We were actually hoping to get a little more support from the RCMP and the college of physicians.
Senator, Quebec (De Lorimier), PSG
You contacted the RCMP, according to the CTV report, three years ago, and so far, they have not.... Are they telling that you the file is closed or...?
As an Individual
Yes, they say they're okay with it, even though they didn't take a statement from my brother or me, and they're aware that his application said that hearing loss was the reason for MAID. It's hard to think that you could have a reasonably foreseeable death from hearing loss, but that was it.
We're not too sure if there's a conflict of interest because it was the RCMP that took him to the hospital, but just the same, they're not going to do any investigation. There doesn't seem to be any recourse that way.
Senator, Quebec (De Lorimier), PSG
I understand that you may have filed a complaint with the nurses' association about this, maybe two years ago?
As an Individual
No. The complaint with the college of physicians—and I guess you have to throw the nurses in there—was done just before.... It was in November 2021.
We weren't in a hurry to do that, because we just thought that they wouldn't do that great a job of investigating their own. We were hoping for the RCMP to do it, but that's as far as we got.
They won't do a thing unless the RCMP proceed with an investigation, so there's not much happening in our favour at all.
Senator, Quebec (De Lorimier), PSG
Thank you, sir. Thank you for your information.
